Other/Mixed Recovery From Over Training

[Rico Killjoy]

Hello,

I'm a Squad Leader in a light infantry unit and my guys are suffering from over training and I want to make sure I'm giving them the proper advice.
We do morning PT for 60-90 minutes a day five times a week. This includes your basic long distance running and fast paced rucking with 35-45lb ruck. Besides that we'll do circuits of calisthenics and a little bit of free weights on the other days.
Of course I encourage my Soldiers (especially the ones living in the barracks) to go to the gym. I've warned them about over training and of course listening to their bodies for early signs of this. Even after all my warnings they constantly seem to be over trained which ultimately results in a poor gym session and a poor PT session. Doing too much and being mediocre at everything. Here is the advice I have given them. If you guys have any more advice to give or certain things that I state that I should harp on more please let me know.
1) Warm up before working out.
2) Do warm up sets before jumping straight into the weight you're ultimately wanting to do.
3) Listen to your body. If it feels sore before you train it, don't train it. Either train something else or take the day off.
4) proper diet.
5) Proper rest.
6) Stretch after the work out when your body is already warmed up.
7) Do a quick full body stretch every couple of hours when you're just hanging out.
8) Listen to your body and if you start to feel weaker or drained the training session ends there.
9) Just because it's written down doesn't mean that's the work out you have to do that day. You can do a different work out or change it into a rest day.
10) You don't have to work out just because I am.

Anyone who has read my Military Training post can see I typically do a high amount of training. Yet I practice everything I preach and as I stated in that thread after every training session I put together I make sure that I'd still be strong enough to go out on a mission. If that means I have to cut part of the training for that day so be it, Increase rest times, break the training up into several small training sessions, or simply taking the day off.
I don't know if they're ignoring my advice, if I'm not giving enough advice, or giving the wrong advice. Help me out guys.

 

[Matts]

@Rico Killjoy It's good you see the issue! That's looking out for them. The only cure for overtraining is rest & recuperation, unless it's gone on for a long time and is severe. Just cut their load way back, and include some easy recovery work until they get back to normal. As a leader, what you do personally is not automatically relevant to the men in your unit. Try to find a level that's a good common denominator for the unit as a group, and train them at that level. Then, you can give some supplementary attention to the ones below that standard, to try to bring them up, and maybe challenge the few above it to keep them progressing. If they stay overtrained, it may affect their performance and morale and not reflect as well on their leader. Good luck & thanks for service to you and all of them!

 

[Rico Killjoy]

@Matts
Thank you for the advice. The biggest problem is I don't have control over the PT plan. Also they work out on their own. That's why I let them know that just because I go train everyday doesn't mean they need to.
For all I know they don't go to the gym and PT is what's making them feel over trained.
To me over trained is when your muscles are constantly sore and it hurts to do normal day activities. Everyday before we kick off morning PT I always hear someone say "I hope we don't do 'fill in blank' because I'm sore." Or they'll do a normal thing like pick up their bag to go change clothes and say "Wow, I guess I'm still sore from the gym because that hurt."
Every time they say something of that sort I always chime in with "sounds like a rest day for the gym".
I know there's a far too many unknowns in this but regardless if they're going to the gym or if it's morning PT it seems like they're sore. I'm just trying to give the best advice I can for the best recovery. For all I know they could be saying they're sore for an easy excuse as to why their PT performance was poor.
I don't want to force them to go to the gym with their Team Leaders because that could easily lead to over training since it seems that all the Leadership is in better physical condition than the junior Soldiers.

 

[Matts]

@Rico Killjoy
To me, overtrained is when it starts interfering with sleep and appetite and the CNS doesn't recover with a day or so rest. The constant soreness and not being ready to go is a precursor, though, to me, and may be overtraining to most. I think you have some challenges to figure out what's going on and then address it appropriately. Some may be malingering, some may be overdoing it, some may be misunderstanding you and thinking you really want them to go to the gym. It sounds like you understand the possibilities, you just have to get a sense of what's going on with them. If they're faking, just be impervious and proceed. Let them know they're responsible for showing up and being ready to go. I think you have a handle on it.

 

[Rico Killjoy]

@Matts
Thanks for the advice bud. I think the best way to do this is a little detective work. Have the Team Leaders go to the gym with them but not train. If they never show up then I know that either PT is kicking their butt or they're malingering. If they do show up the TL can see what types of exercises they're doing and how long they stay. Get data and then push forward from there.

 

[North Coast Miller]

In my experience with overtraining it is often a result of lack of proper hydration over time (you get used to being chronically dehydrated), and too much volume at too high an intensity. Nutrition also plays a role, but since that is largely an individual choice, is tough to make recommendations for recovery aside from "eat more fruit" and "drink more water".

If they are going to do additional work on top of your current schedule, I'd encourage them to do low volume/high intensity stuff with a lot of rest between sets - stay away from the higher volume pump-up workouts. It will increase their load bearing and is easier to recover from in combination with the relatively high volume work they do on the clock.

 

[Rico Killjoy]

@North Coast Miller

That's good advice. I already tell them to aim more towards a strength program since they already get plenty of conditioning during PT. I should have a look at their work out plan and see if they're actually doing it. The Army gives a false belief in what "strength training" is. If you're doing anything besides running most of the time it's counted as a strength day. We all know doing 200 push ups in 10 minutes isn't really Strength building (even though it is an easy task).
It also would surprise me if some of these guys don't have an actual work out plan so when they go to train they do whatever they feel like or copying other people in the gym and not understanding proper form. I've had a few Soldiers do that before. This is the first time I've ever had Soldiers constantly say they're sore though. I understand a lack of motivation to do some of the days for PT but a lack of motivation doesn't make your muscles sore.
As per diet I practice what I preach and they see me eating a banana before PT, a banana and eggs for breakfast, spinach salad for lunch, and if I get hungry between meals I eat more apples or bananas. All I ever drink at work is water. I drink coffee but that's in the morning before I drive to work.

 

[pet']

Hello,

IMO, a good training is a training you might be able to do it again, shortly after the first time you did it. It has to be the very minimum effective dose.

To manage the training it itself, a lot of rest and good eating habits. As long as you feel any pain / fatigue / soreness, if you are not obliged to physical training, then skip it.

If you feel permanently tired, it is probably because you are experiencing overtraining. So the best way to prevent it is to listen the body signals (pain, etc...).

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Rico Killjoy]

@pet'

I agree 100%. Just like I said in my Military Training thread I'm able to go on a mission right after my work out. A typical mission for light infantry is a 15-20km walk with 95-115lbs of equipment and be ready to react to contact at any point in time.
If the work out leaves you feeling drained than you either worked too hard, have a poor diet, or lack hydration.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Rico Killjoy
Yes, your typical mission in itself seems pretty demanding. Overtraining also taxes mental and spirit. From my experience, it makes you kind of depressed, get out of you any motivation if situation becomes difficult to handle.

When you reached this point, it almost leaves you a trauma and you really do not want to go through that again. Above all, overtraining occurres "stupidly" because it happens while you want to get better. So it generates lots of frustration.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Rico Killjoy]

@pet'

I agree with you 100% bud! One of my favorite phrases is "you grow when you rest, NOT when you train".
I thought it was so funny when I was in Afghanistan because I knew people that would lift for 2-3 hours a day and at times it was right after we got back from mission. I would stretch out for about 30min, relax for another hour, walked around to see how I felt, and then if I was good to go I'd hit the gym for 45-60 minutes. If I was feeling good and got really bored I'd hit the gym for another 45-60min (of course doing dynamic stretches before the work out and static after). They got so mad at me because I was in the gym less and appeared to do less work yet I become stronger and faster than them. They said I was never sore because I didn't work out as hard as them.
False... I trained I didn't work out. I had a purpose for going into the gym rather than just to kill time. Plus I was respectful to my body by actually stretching (which a lot of people don't do) and allowed my body to rest.

 

[Tarzan]

I've never been in the army or been a squad leader, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I have had up to 60 men working under me on construction sites though, so I do understand what motivates people to some extent.

Is it possible that you are asking too much of these guys ?

They train 5 days a week, do fast paced rucking with up to 45lbs, circuits of calisthenics and work with free weights. These are fit guys who probably don't need much more work if any. Sure if a few individuals have obvious areas that are lacking they might need some focused work but chances are most of them don't.

I've always found the best way to sap motivation from a group of men is to push them too hard and expect too much from them.

Your training schedule reads like the operating manual for a military android secret weapon, maybe they just think you won't be satisfied with them if they can't go above and beyond like you do.

If the extra training was completely optional maybe with an incentive of some form they might be more willing to accept it. Something like the courage corner Pavel wrote about, there's nothing like a bit of friendly competition to motivate any group of young men. Limit it to one or two days a week and you might see some changes in their fatigue levels and their motivation.

 

[Anna C]

I've always found the best way to sap motivation from a group of men is to push them too hard and expect too much from them.

My boss (when I was in the military, actually) used to have a sign in the office that read, "THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES"

 

[Rico Killjoy]

@Tarzan

I would agree with you if this wasn't 2017 and it was okay for Drill Sergeants to do their job. People really don't know how In physically fit Soldiers are these days. There's no real punishment for falling out of a ruck or run and there's nothing you can do if they choose to score the bare minimum on an APFT. These Soldiers know this and take advantage of it because a bunch of bleeding heart civilians wanted to complain about how we were training Soldiers. No doubt the same civilians that think they have the right to tell us the rules of engagement.
Don't take this at me complaining at you or saying you don't know what you're talking about. I'm simply stating that the physically fit Soldiers that America has come to know and understand have now been tainted and standards have been lowered which has resulted in a more over all physically and mentally weak Soldier. As stated earlier Drill Sergeants can only do so much and then it's really up to the gaining units NCOs job to make them stronger. The sad thing is now days telling a Soldier that we're about to deploy and being weak and slow will either kill your self or other people still isn't motivating enough for these guys.