Kettlebell Resting heart rate

[thegoldengod]

I’m male, 33 years old, 5’11, 175lb

Training with KBs since early 2016. I practice s&s daily, with the occasional variety day mixed in.

I have been using an Apple Watch to monitor my heart rate for the last 2 years and have noticed that my resting heart rate used to be ~55bpm and nowadays consistently around 48-50bpm.

I am wondering if daily s&s with improved nutrition (?) attributed towards this.

Nothing scientific, just an observation.

Has anyone else seen improved resting HR?

 

[vegpedlr]

I don’t have a “before” to compare RHR, but a common result of endurance training is lowered RHR as the heart becomes stronger and more efficient. S&S has an endurance component.

 

[Bunn]

I have begun tracking my resting heart rate again, and I have found very similar results, I am currently averaging 53bpm first thing in the morning. I have not done any other physical training besides S&S since January of this year, I fully attribute the decrease in resting heart rate to it.

 

[Sean M]

I have heard that if your RHR gets elevated +10 or so in a short timeframe (a few days or a week) it is a sign of overtraining/under-recovery. Is that accurate?

 

[thegoldengod]

I have heard that if your RHR gets elevated +10 or so in a short timeframe (a few days or a week) it is a sign of overtraining/under-recovery. Is that accurate?

I'd be interested to know as well!

Aside from feeling overtrained -- one data point I am trying to track/correlate is heart rate variability upon waking. I know that its very subjective, and not even entirely accurate w/ an Apple Watch (vs. other methods) -- but I have noticed that on days where I had poor sleep my variability # was much lower than average. I still train based on feeling vs. data, but something I've been trying to collect for a while now, with hopes of being able to glean something one day.

What does overtraining feel like to me?

1. My grip is usually shot and swings/snatches aren't crisp

2. I just feel sore or achy. This doesn't happen often, as I don't go all out, but training, coupled with a few nights bad sleep or a bad diet can get you here occasionally

How about you?

 

[fractal]

I have heard that if your RHR gets elevated +10 or so in a short timeframe (a few days or a week) it is a sign of overtraining/under-recovery. Is that accurate?

I’ve heard this. Also higher HR during repeatable tasks eg. running same route at same pace is said to be a similar marker.

 

[Anna C]

I have heard that if your RHR gets elevated +10 or so in a short timeframe (a few days or a week) it is a sign of overtraining/under-recovery. Is that accurate?

It can indicate a problem related to training, yes, although it would be pretty rare to have a +10 change. I'd be more likely to suspect caffeine or something in that case.

Oddly, a remarkedly decreased RHR can indicate overtraining. In fact, in my understanding (which isn't expert... just what I've come to learn over the years of studying both endurance training and resistance training), actual overtraining is an endurance training phenomenon that 1) rarely occurs, and 2) only occurs with endurance training.

That said, "overdoing it" can occur with any type of training anytime, obviously. So its not incorrect to call this "overtraining" -- it's just not the actual physiological condition that was given that name. Overdoing it is normally shown by a more stressed, sympathetic NS-dominant, low HRV, higher RHR type condition. In contrast, an actual overtraining condition may show as low-energy, parasympathetic-NS dominant, extra high HRV, and extra low (5-10 bpm below normal) RHR.

Interested in other inputs on this as it's a subject on which many different things are heard and discussed.

I have been heart-rate training for over 10 years (cycling/running for 10 years, kettlebell for 3 years or so) and monitoring my RHR and HRV every morning for over 3 years, so I know my own responses pretty well, but always interseted in learning more on the subject and hearing about others' HR/HRV responses to training.

 

[Sean M]

@Anna C I keep forgetting to check my pulse before getting out of bed (it has to be that way, right? otherwise it's elevated if you yourself are "elevated" (standing)?), but otherwise go by how I feel on my way to the basement in the morning. I'm not always motivated, but 9 times out of 10 if I'm not motivated, I get into it soon into the session. Only rarely is it really a "bleh" session - but if I went off what I felt like doing, I wouldn't train as consistently. Who wouldn't want to stay curled up in bed?

 

[Anna C]

@Anna C I keep forgetting to check my pulse before getting out of bed (it has to be that way, right? otherwise it's elevated if you yourself are "elevated" (standing)?)

That's an often recommended way to check it, but it's also pretty accurate to check it just after minimal waking-up activities. Before coffee, of course.

As for lying/sitting/standing, the Elite HRV app and podcast has recommended that if your RHR is below a certain amount (50, I think... maybe 55), that it's more accurate to do your HRV measurement sitting or standing. (edit: to rephrase - it's not that it's more accurate, just that it's more revealing... it's more likely to show the actual variations in HRV with some postural stress applied, as opposed to lying down). It's really just important to be consistent, because you're looking for variations. At least in the application of HR + HRV monitoring for training readiness, overall stress, etc. I do mine sitting, about 5 minutes after waking with minimal activity prior.

otherwise go by how I feel on my way to the basement in the morning. I'm not always motivated, but 9 times out of 10 if I'm not motivated, I get into it soon into the session. Only rarely is it really a "bleh" session - but if I went off what I felt like doing, I wouldn't train as consistently.

Yeah I think usually this is good enough. I am pretty well tuned into this myself and sometimes wonder why I still monitor HR/HRV, but every now and then it teaches me something or makes me think about how I REALLY feel, when it shows an unexpected variation. Rarely do I let it dissuade me from my planned training session, but I might focus harder on sleep or other recovery if it casts any doubt.

Who wouldn't want to stay curled up in bed?

Right?

 

[Bret S.]

actual overtraining is an endurance training phenomenon that 1) rarely occurs, and 2) only occurs with endurance training.

Anna I have something strange to report and couldn't figure it out until I read your words above. As you know I've been doing AC's snatch plan along with lots of LED work thrown in.
So two big changes have just occurred in my life..

1. My daughter is moving 2 hrs North of where I am, she is the last one to move as she was going to college locally. Now all 3 of my kids have left town along with my ex wife.
2. I've been doing several hrs of LED work walking and rowing for the last few weeks. This is something I'm not used to doing in high volume.

Before I had a family I would have bouts of despair and or depression on occasion up until age 35 or so and then they vanished, I had found my purpose and it was being a family man. That became my identity as I knew in my heart it would. I had no symptoms of anything for decades.
Now suddenly in the last week or so I got hit with a horrible bout of despair, I know my daughter leaving helped trigger it but honestly I've been through much worse in the last few years. I knew it was different this time and very powerful.
Luckily I could still train, that's my happy place, but I could not for the life of me figure out what changed so much with my brain. Then I read what you said and it clicked, too much LED too soon caused something to change chemically in my brain.

 

[User 7569]

Pulse rate is a very fickle thing that is affected by many, many different factors

I think there are lot of other variables you could track that would tell you a lot more about the efficacy of your training program.

 

[Anna C]

too much LED too soon caused something to change chemically in my brain.

Yes I think that very well could be... I may not know all the ins and outs of training stress, but I do know from experience that overdoing LED feels very different from overdoing resistance training, more glycolytic conditioning, etc. It can sneak up on you, and yes, I would definitely say can affect the mood.

It is always good when you can identify another source of change on brain chemistry, when you have events that make you feel certain ways but it just doesn't seem to completely account for the degree of emotion.

My son said something one time that "stuck" in our family vocabulary. He made a rather ordinary joke which made me laugh quite a lot. He said, "I know it was funny. But why was it SO funny?" I explained that it was the joke plus the way he said it (so characteristic of him, and delightful to me) that made me laugh. Now when I have some reaction or emotion that's out of the norm, I ask myself the same. i.e., I know why I'm sad. But why am I SO sad? Or, I know why I'm annoyed. But why am I SO annoyed? Often it's some underlying issue, or just some physiological thing that's got me thrown off my game for some reason. It's often useful and comforting to look for and find that additional factor that explains what's in our heads.

 

[fractal]

Anna I have something strange to report and couldn't figure it out until I read your words above. As you know I've been doing AC's snatch plan along with lots of LED work thrown in.
So two big changes have just occurred in my life..

1. My daughter is moving 2 hrs North of where I am, she is the last one to move as she was going to college locally. Now all 3 of my kids have left town along with my ex wife.
2. I've been doing several hrs of LED work walking and rowing for the last few weeks. This is something I'm not used to doing in high volume.

Before I had a family I would have bouts of despair and or depression on occasion up until age 35 or so and then they vanished, I had found my purpose and it was being a family man. That became my identity as I knew in my heart it would. I had no symptoms of anything for decades.
Now suddenly in the last week or so I got hit with a horrible bout of despair, I know my daughter leaving helped trigger it but honestly I've been through much worse in the last few years. I knew it was different this time and very powerful.
Luckily I could still train, that's my happy place, but I could not for the life of me figure out what changed so much with my brain. Then I read what you said and it clicked, too much LED too soon caused something to change chemically in my brain.

Sorry to hear Bret.

It’s funny to think you can overdo something like walking, but I’m definitely riding that edge at the moment. Having a couple 3 hour walks/rucks in the past 10 days (with the second one definitely overloaded in my vest) and totalling 10hrs has proved to be more costly than restorative. I owe the dog another long one tomorrow and then I’m pulling back and waiting for that supercompensation.

I’m learning it’s an accumulation that sneaks up on you much more subtly than strength and power training.

 

[vegpedlr]

I have heard that if your RHR gets elevated +10 or so in a short timeframe (a few days or a week) it is a sign of overtraining/under-recovery. Is that accurate?

Could very well be. Elevated HR is a good indication something is wrong, but it's only one marker. HRV is more sensitive, and can be valuable to track, as others have described. I've tracked HRV off and on for years, when I do, it gives me a valuable second opinion as to how things are going. When I get a weird reading, I know that I need to take a look and see if something might be out of whack. It helps prevent the ind from playing tricks that everything's all right when it might not be. For instance, right before I get sick, my HRV will take a dive, even before symptoms develop. I also take a look at my HR before setting out on a run or bike. I know what my normal range is, and that can help tell me if I'm really recovered or not.

 

[offwidth]

4-1/2 decades of endurance activities.
RHR 46-48

 

[North Coast Miller]

I have heard that if your RHR gets elevated +10 or so in a short timeframe (a few days or a week) it is a sign of overtraining/under-recovery. Is that accurate?

I recall S Maxwell mentioning that. If AM HR is elevated above baseline it means you are still in recovery mode. IIRC it falls in a range and I don't believe he mentioned what that is. This was in context of HIT training, so is to be expected several days to full recovery.

 

[Denny Phillips]

During my college basketball days we would start the season with three-a-day practices with the last one being essentially conditioning and free throws for an hour. After a week of that most of us would feel "agitated" in a physical and emotional sense. One of my physiology profs suggested that we check our resting pulse first thing in the morning. I had been doing that fairly consistently during the summer leading up to the school year and had averaged 46 bpm. I had gotten away from it when classes started but resumed the weekend after speaking to the prof. It was averaging 56-60 bpm. After resuming a normal practice routine it leveled off a bit lower, 52-55 if I recall correctly. A week or two after the season was over it was a consistent 44 bpm. I felt like I was in the best shape of my life after a modicum of recovery. Then came track season...

It was my gold standard at the time and it was valuable when I was coaching track. In this day and age there certainly may be better indicators but I still don't dismiss it.

 

[Bret S.]

It is always good when you can identify another source of change on brain chemistry, when you have events that make you feel certain ways but it just doesn't seem to completely account for the degree of emotion.

I'm pretty aware of small changes both physically and mentally and remain consistent overall, when something like this hits me out of the blue I think of any changes from the norm in diet, external and internal stress, training stress or changes in the training menu etc...
I skipped LED as a possible cause. In my head I was thinking 'all good, recovery work, very healthy easy training' so it never came up in my thoughts as a possible cause for a sudden almost violent change in my mood and brain action.
I remember experimenting with testosterone while bodybuilding in my mid twenties, sometimes the hair on the back of my neck would stand up for no reason, my general demeanor was morose and I would have had no problem smashing a chair over somebody's head in a fight.
It was a terrible experience overall and I never forgot the power of chemical changes in the brain, and though the reasonable and kind part of me knew what was happening I had only limited success controlling myself.
This recent episode lasted only a few days, starting on Fri afternoon, Sat was a very bad day and carried over into Sun morning. By Sun night I felt some relief and this morning I was back to normal. I walked 5 miles today and feel fine but I think I'll cut back some this week, 5 consecutive days walking and or rowing is a lot of work if you're not used to it.

I’m learning it’s an accumulation that sneaks up on you much more subtly than strength and power training.

Thanks fractal, in all training changes gradual adaptation is very important, and the older you get the more it comes into play. My problem is that I feel so good most of the time and honestly feel like I'm in my late 30's, sometimes that collides with reality and I pay the price.

 

[fractal]

I'm pretty aware of small changes both physically and mentally and remain consistent overall, when something like this hits me out of the blue I think of any changes from the norm in diet, external and internal stress, training stress or changes in the training menu etc...
I skipped LED as a possible cause. In my head I was thinking 'all good, recovery work, very healthy easy training' so it never came up in my thoughts as a possible cause for a sudden almost violent change in my mood and brain action.
I remember experimenting with testosterone while bodybuilding in my mid twenties, sometimes the hair on the back of my neck would stand up for no reason, my general demeanor was morose and I would have had no problem smashing a chair over somebody's head in a fight.
It was a terrible experience overall and I never forgot the power of chemical changes in the brain, and though the reasonable and kind part of me knew what was happening I had only limited success controlling myself.
This recent episode lasted only a few days, starting on Fri afternoon, Sat was a very bad day and carried over into Sun morning. By Sun night I felt some relief and this morning I was back to normal. I walked 5 miles today and feel fine but I think I'll cut back some this week, 5 consecutive days walking and or rowing is a lot of work if you're not used to it.



Thanks fractal, in all training changes gradual adaptation is very important, and the older you get the more it comes into play. My problem is that I feel so good most of the time and honestly feel like I'm in my late 30's, sometimes that collides with reality and I pay the price.

I’ve always felt that it takes nearly the same amount of willpower to back off when on a roll as it does to start training back up after a layoff.

Most of the time, my sense of overtraining is felt distant to the actual session, usually at the ends of the day or after training - too easy to ignore.

 

[Im out]

Has anyone else seen improved resting HR?

With S&S + Buteyko yes.