all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Results after 12 weeks of Kettlebell STRONG!

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Mike Torres

Mike Torres

Senior Instructor, Jiu-Jitsu Brown Belt
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
My 12 weeks of Kettlebell STRONG! by @Geoff Neupert concluded yesterday and the results were pretty extraordinary.

DISCLAIMER: My approach is not necessarily your approach. I've been into strength training since I was a young lad of 13 (30 years!) and I've been in the hardstyle kettlebell scene for a decade now. I've attended / taught at over a dozen StrongFirst courses and certifications, and I've passed all the strength and technique tests multiple times. I can single-arm press half my bodyweight on both sides, I've achieved "Timeless Sinister", I enjoy snatching the 36kg for reps, and double bell training is my jam. I’m not saying this to boast as there are many people more accomplished than I am; it’s just to give some context on the below. I’m also 43 years old, married, kids, full-time job, etc.

WHAT THIS MEANS: Before you make any modifications to this (or any) program, or DM me for more specifics on *how* you should modify it... if you're unsure how to go about it... you probably shouldn't. Don't just blindly follow my lead with accessory lifts and A+A, or tinker with anything unless you have some deep experience. If you don't, and honestly most won't, just follow the program by the book. Even though I did some other stuff, for the main protocol, I still did it 100% "as written" 3x/week for 12 weeks.

BEFORE: 3 days/week of strength training, 3-4 days/week of BJJ on alternate days. My strength training has been minimalist for a while given how hard BJJ is on the body, so it's been primarily cycles of Q&D, S&S, or A+A with Easy Strength grinds (press, squat, pull-ups). My double kettlebell clean & press max was 5 reps with double 28kg.

DURING: 3 days/week of Kettlebell STRONG! (with double 28kg), 2-3 days/week of solo BJJ mat drills (20-30m), and ~2 days/week of easy A+A swings (15 to 45m) with 32-40kg... or just outdoor walks depending on how I felt. Lots of sleep. I also ate a LOT more. After a 12-14 hour overnight fast I had 5-6 "meals" with hefty amounts of protein + some key supplements (essential amino acids, creatine, and fish oil).

I did the ‘short course’. I added a small amount of accessory work after the main lifts early on (farmer carries, hanging leg raises, goblet squats, banded rows) but made sure it didn't take away from the goal. I also adapted this based on the total volume that week. I took days off, jumped in the sauna, used recovery gear, etc. This happened a lot over the last 4 weeks as the volume quickly doubled.

RESULTS: I gained ~14lbs (170 to 184lb) and the gains are definitely visible to me in my arms, traps, lats, and legs. So, basically everywhere. My 30" waist pants still fit amazingly enough, though are a little more snug. Basically I feel like my version of 1977 Lou Ferrigno ;) My double 28kg clean & press went from a max of 5 a few months ago... to 10 sets of 6 with ~3 minutes of rest in between sets... which is crazy.

I usually don't care about building mass or packing on visible muscle; I haven't for years. But if not now - when I'm not doing 6+ hours/week of jiu-jitsu - then when? I plan on stepping back on the BJJ mats at 190lb (+20lb) and honestly I may not get another chance to do that for a loooong time... if ever. So if you are reading this and are one of my BJJ training partners, I am doing this for you... in the worst way possible :)

In short, I'm really, really happy with these results. Highly recommended for anyone who has met the prerequisites and wants to get stronger and pack on some muscle.

Next up: high-rep back squats (ugh!), deadlifts, and KB complexes... after a short break.
 
Hello,

Great results !

Would it be sustainable on the long term ? Or is it more a peaking program like RoP ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Mike Torres said:
My 12 weeks of Kettlebell STRONG! by @Geoff Neupert concluded yesterday and the results were pretty extraordinary.

DISCLAIMER: My approach is not necessarily your approach. I've been into strength training since I was a young lad of 13 (30 years!) and I've been in the hardstyle kettlebell scene for a decade now. I've attended / taught at over a dozen StrongFirst courses and certifications, and I've passed all the strength and technique tests multiple times. I can single-arm press half my bodyweight on both sides, I've achieved "Timeless Sinister", I enjoy snatching the 36kg for reps, and double bell training is my jam. I’m not saying this to boast as there are many people more accomplished than I am; it’s just to give some context on the below. I’m also 43 years old, married, kids, full-time job, etc.

WHAT THIS MEANS: Before you make any modifications to this (or any) program, or DM me for more specifics on *how* you should modify it... if you're unsure how to go about it... you probably shouldn't. Don't just blindly follow my lead with accessory lifts and A+A, or tinker with anything unless you have some deep experience. If you don't, and honestly most won't, just follow the program by the book. Even though I did some other stuff, for the main protocol, I still did it 100% "as written" 3x/week for 12 weeks.

BEFORE: 3 days/week of strength training, 3-4 days/week of BJJ on alternate days. My strength training has been minimalist for a while given how hard BJJ is on the body, so it's been primarily cycles of Q&D, S&S, or A+A with Easy Strength grinds (press, squat, pull-ups). My double kettlebell clean & press max was 5 reps with double 28kg.

DURING: 3 days/week of Kettlebell STRONG! (with double 28kg), 2-3 days/week of solo BJJ mat drills (20-30m), and ~2 days/week of easy A+A swings (15 to 45m) with 32-40kg... or just outdoor walks depending on how I felt. Lots of sleep. I also ate a LOT more. After a 12-14 hour overnight fast I had 5-6 "meals" with hefty amounts of protein + some key supplements (essential amino acids, creatine, and fish oil).

I did the ‘short course’. I added a small amount of accessory work after the main lifts early on (farmer carries, hanging leg raises, goblet squats, banded rows) but made sure it didn't take away from the goal. I also adapted this based on the total volume that week. I took days off, jumped in the sauna, used recovery gear, etc. This happened a lot over the last 4 weeks as the volume quickly doubled.

RESULTS: I gained ~14lbs (170 to 184lb) and the gains are definitely visible to me in my arms, traps, lats, and legs. So, basically everywhere. My 30" waist pants still fit amazingly enough, though are a little more snug. Basically I feel like my version of 1977 Lou Ferrigno ;) My double 28kg clean & press went from a max of 5 a few months ago... to 10 sets of 6 with ~3 minutes of rest in between sets... which is crazy.

I usually don't care about building mass or packing on visible muscle; I haven't for years. But if not now - when I'm not doing 6+ hours/week of jiu-jitsu - then when? I plan on stepping back on the BJJ mats at 190lb (+20lb) and honestly I may not get another chance to do that for a loooong time... if ever. So if you are reading this and are one of my BJJ training partners, I am doing this for you... in the worst way possible :)

In short, I'm really, really happy with these results. Highly recommended for anyone who has met the prerequisites and wants to get stronger and pack on some muscle.

Next up: high-rep back squats (ugh!), deadlifts, and KB complexes... after a short break.
Click to expand...

Thank you, @Mike Torres for the excellent write up, and insight on intelligent modifications based on your background, schedule, and lifestyle!

Congratulations on your well-earned strength and muscle gains.
 
Well done sir, im close to finishing up the first 8 weeks, short course looks intimidating so props on getting it accomplished.
 
Thanks all - and thanks @Geoff Neupert for the genius programming. Had a great time doing this and of course, let me know if I can help with a testimonial or anything else in the future.

@Provx Agree, it was intimidating for me too. But I took my time in the strength phase - so by the time I got there, I figured I had a good shot. It was still very challenging. @John Grahill totally!

@pet' Not a long-term program for me at 10x6. I could keep doing it for a few weeks, but at some point, I think the volume and fatigue would catch up with me. But it certainly could be if I were to start over from the beginning (with a heavier bell or not) and take the time to build up the volume again.
 
Interesting post !

How do you manage to sleep so much ? I don't mean how you find time for it, but how you manage to stay asleep for so long and have high sleep quality ?
 
Anders said:
Interesting post !

How do you manage to sleep so much ? I don't mean how you find time for it, but how you manage to stay asleep for so long and have high sleep quality ?
Click to expand...
Lots of experimentation. My sleep hacks are a bit... extreme. You can read about them here (they’ve evolved since then, but the gist is basically the same). The short of it: cold, dark room, no screens or light for a few hours, and a cold shower about an hour before bed.

 
Very enjoyable read Mike, congrats!

How much fat do you think you gained with this?

I also see you pushed rest to 3 minutes instead of 1-2, I may need to incorporate longer rests when I get backing into the long phase from my rest
 
LejonBrames said:
Very enjoyable read Mike, congrats!

How much fat do you think you gained with this?

I also see you pushed rest to 3 minutes instead of 1-2, I may need to incorporate longer rests when I get backing into the long phase from my rest
Click to expand...
Hard to say, honestly. I tend to run pretty lean - though I'd be kidding myself if I thought it was all muscle. I look more "solid" now but still have my abs, so I'm overall pretty content with it. Having said that, I don't plan to walk around 15-20lb heavier than my "normal" weight forever - but would like to stabilize about 5-6lb heavier once I get back to BJJ.

1-2 minute rest periods worked well with 4s, and somewhat with 5s. But I prioritized finishing the sets unbroken near the end with 6s, so I did take a little extra rest. I think the tradeoff was worth it and it didn't affect the "pump" that comes from this type of training.
 
Understanding that modifying the program is not what Geoff might recommend, do you mind if I ask how you incorporated A+A snatches on the off day. Reps, sets, rest time etc?

thanks. I’m a third of the way through the “slow and steady” portion, so this thread is of great interest to me.
 
@Tirofijo I didn't snatch at all for 12 weeks. The A+A days were 2-arm swings-only (with two exceptions when I did 1-arm with a light bell) and they were really more like active recovery days than training days. Some days I did a "harder" top of the minute 16x7 with 40kg or 44kg, but most days I would do 20x5, 30x5, or 40x5 with 32kg or 36kg. I did 45 minutes a couple times too prior to the C&P volume picking up.

I didn't use overspeed eccentrics like I do for Q&D; it was a snappy, yet easy swing. Tons of rest with fast & loose practice in between sets. There were definitely sessions when I barely broke a sweat :) It's basically what Dan John appropriately calls Recharge in Mass Made Simple: "What most people discover after about age 30 is that a little bit of the hair of the dog that bit you goes a long way in helping you recover for the next day's workout."

Personally, I wouldn't add snatches - but your mileage may vary. For me, overhead lifts take a lot out of my shoulders & triceps and I knew that adding snatches, jerks, heavy getups, pushups, etc. would be counterproductive and negatively affect my C&P the next day. Again, this is based on years of experimentation and knowing what works for my body. My posterior chain recovers quickly, my overhead pressing muscles generally need more rest. The most I did were some ab wheel rollouts - and even those I scaled back over time.
 
Mike Torres said:
@Tirofijo I didn't snatch at all for 12 weeks. The A+A days were 2-arm swings-only (with two exceptions when I did 1-arm with a light bell) and they were really more like active recovery days than training days. Some days I did a "harder" top of the minute 16x7 with 40kg or 44kg, but most days I would do 20x5, 30x5, or 40x5 with 32kg or 36kg. I did 45 minutes a couple times too prior to the C&P volume picking up.

I didn't use overspeed eccentrics like I do for Q&D; it was a snappy, yet easy swing. Tons of rest with fast & loose practice in between sets. There were definitely sessions when I barely broke a sweat :) It's basically what Dan John appropriately calls Recharge in Mass Made Simple: "What most people discover after about age 30 is that a little bit of the hair of the dog that bit you goes a long way in helping you recover for the next day's workout."

Personally, I wouldn't add snatches - but your mileage may vary. For me, overhead lifts take a lot out of my shoulders & triceps and I knew that adding snatches, jerks, heavy getups, pushups, etc. would be counterproductive and negatively affect my C&P the next day. Again, this is based on years of experimentation and knowing what works for my body. My posterior chain recovers quickly, my overhead pressing muscles generally need more rest. The most I did were some ab wheel rollouts - and even those I scaled back over time.
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't read closely and thought you were snatching. (I've not been doing anything on off days except the occasional Maffetone-style slow run. I won't be adding snatches :))

Thanks again.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom