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Old Forum Rhomboids and S&S

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camaro hair

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Perhaps I am over-thinking things, but I can't help but wonder if the rhomboids might require additional "work" if I am exclusively training for the S&S "Simple" goals.

My apologies if this topic has been addressed previously.
 
by keeping the shoulder properly packed the rhomboids get plenty of work in both the swing and the get-ups
 
Shouldn't need it, but if you still feel that you do--maybe have some postural issues, for example?--there's no reason you can't add some of Dan's batwing rows at the end of your sessions.
 
This simple 'boid strengthener is a part of the posterior chain linking sequence that has caused immediate PRs.  Pol Murray, for example tripled his max deadlift (395x1 to 395x3 in 5 minutes).  Several others have immediately increased work capacity with KB swings and other ballistics and even pistols.

Grab a bumper plate and pull it into your chest hard for 10 seconds or so BEFORE you lift.

For a lot of folks I've heard from, the 'boids have atrophied.  This will wake them up.

If I'm not mistaken Pavel has some kind of 'boid exercise in S&S but can't remember.
 
Chris, preventing a heavy kettlebell from running away on the top of each swing will get your rhomboids's attention.
 
Sean, wasn't that Pavel's point?  You would try to retract, not protract, your shoulder at the top of a swing.

-S-
 
Hey Steve,

I guess, if they were aware of it but even then there is a lot of other things going on in the swing.

I was at a workshop a few years ago with a room full of KBers.  The instructor was palpating upper backs and said there were "holes" where the 'boids should be.

I listened to S&S on audio when it first came out so might not be remembering, but I thought Pavel had a 'boid drill in there somewhere.

Best,

Sean
 
As Marchese says, aren't the rhomboids firing in the correct lockout position at the top of a TGU/press/snatch? I've taken videos of my back in the press, for example, and the rhomboids are bulging.
 
This is an interesting topic to me because I went to an osteopath a few months ago and on the table she noticed that my rhomboids were weak.
I've been doing swing and kettlebells exercises for 2 years. I am 1 hand swinging 32kg for S&S. How possible is it that I'm packing my shoulders enough? Here's an older video of me doing 24kg 2-hand swings http://youtu.be/FvOQl-midI0

So to be clear, next time when I swing should I think about retracting my shoulders more?

 

Thanks!

 
 
Camron,

I can't imagine how anyone could accurately assess the strength of a person (let alone a specific muscle) when they are laying on a table. Especially the rhomboids, which act to retract the scapula (or prevent it from moving forward, as in the swing). What could she have done to test your scapular retraction strength?? I think she was making an assumption that was unfounded. If you are worried about it, get some gymnastics rings and practice rows/pullups/levers. My back has never felt stronger since I began doing lots of ring work.
 
All,

Camron's video illustrates a great point ... you can perform the swing without really performing the swing.  I mean, you're doing it, objectively, but you're not doing it, subjectively - a trained eye can see the difference.  And, as an aside, this is why the hardstyle swing can't be a crossfit exercise, for example - there is no objective way to judge tension - the whole point of the swing.

Most people are either swinging too light, and/or are swinging with a lot of looseness.  In 1-h swings, you should literally be feeling the soft tissue strain down your back from your shoulder to your pelvis in an attempt to arrest the bell's descent on the bottom, and the ascent at the top.  In the 2-h swing version, this feeling is there but not so prominent - 2 hands on the bell and all.

You don't NEED ring work ... you don't NEED batwings ... not that these are not great ways to work scap retraction, but, you just need a heavier bell AND get TIGHT against it - swing "correctly".  This cannot be overstated enough ...

One more time, for sh*ts & giggles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvb35p-EiQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBzXl9wqEC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFyPUyKipSo

Get. Tight!
 
The scientist, she had me lay on my stomach with my arms out at the side and asked me to resist her pushing down on my arm. She said she only applied 15lb of force before I could not longer hold my shoulder and arm in position from her pushing. Seems legit to me.

 

Al, thank you for sharing that. Obviously after 2 years I have a long way to go before I can actually truthfully say I mastered the swing. Your videos are very helpful. Since my video I can say I do my swings heavier and faster, but now I have you as an example. Thank you!

One day I will be Strong First Certified! Thank you to all.

 

As a side note the osteopath gave me 3 exercises, and on one of them I lay on my stomach, relax my shoulders and arms along the side of my body. I then lift my hands and inch off the ground and slowly extend my arms to the side and over head and back down the the side for 10 slow reps with relaxation between every rep. I have not been doing this consistently, but I noticed I am stronger at doing it since I started a couple months ago..

 

Cheers,

Camron - http://ottawaisfit.com
 
Camron,

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that you are not actually weak in your upper back, just that the test did not specifically test the rhomboid. She pressed downward on your arm, but the rhomboid does not attach to the humerus. Your lats were the primary failure in that test. To test scapular retraction, you would have to get a person to hold on to two cables with their arms outstretched while laying down and ask them to pinch their shoulder blades together.

However, weak is weak and the exact muscle may not matter. Perhaps it is time to do some heavier pulling and pressing work.  Putting on a good 20 lbs would do you a lot of good.
 
Sometimes, when they say a muscle (group) is weak, it can also be a natural way of the body to protect itself. If for instance the antagonist is 'stuck' (can't get to the correct english term, but a muscle that needs release) the body tends to weaken the other muscle to prevent further damage.

In those cases the muscle isn't weak and needs to be trained, but the antagonists needs to be released, and the 'weak' muscle activated. Often that fixes the issue.
 
Addition:

You can easily check if what i wrote above is the case. The activation points for the Rhomboid are T-6 and T-7, just next to the processus spinosis. (left and right). Alternatively, you van use the 7th & 8th intercostal space (between ribs 9, 8 & 7, just next to the sternum).

If you massage these spots for about 30s – 1min the nerve conecction between the brain and the muscle (if there was a problem to begin with) should be reestabilshed.

If you test again, and there is a difference in performance of your Rhomboids, then the cause is often found in another muscle.

This happens a lot with people who have tight pectoral muscles. Pectorals are tight, and as a result the trapezius muscle ‘weakens’ to protect the body.

Worth a try at least.
 
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