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Old Forum Rite of Passage

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amac474

amac474

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Just bought the new S&S book last week.  I had been working on my Rite of Passage goals when I decided I needed to work on my swing some more and I stumbled across Pavel's new book.  My only question is, and I scoured the forums for a definite answer, that is the Rite of Passage now considered obsolete compared to the new S&S program? If not, when exactly would oneself continue from S&S and move on to the ROP? After meeting the sinister goals? Only reason I ask is because I was so close to the 200 reps for 10 min (183 with 24kg) for the SSST.

So I decided to suck it up and go back to the PM and stay with the basics for a while.  My goals are pretty broad.  I'm always trying to be in the best condition for my job, I am a wildland fire fighter in California, we pack a lot of weight for hours, sometimes days, on end.  In addition to the new Program Minimum, I run every other day and looking to introduce loaded carries and rucking into my program. Any thoughts, suggestions or criticism is welcome.  Thank you!
 
I don't think the RoP is outdated. They are quite diffrent in the programs (compare the goals of both programs). If you want to switch from doing S&S to RoP I would do S&S for a set periods (somewhere say between 2-12weeks) and then do another RoP cycle.

 

Good luck mate :)
 
It is definitely not obsolete, but like Rickard said the programs have very different goals. If you're looking to really increase your press, then RoP ladders are going to do the trick. If you're trying to focus on General Physical Preparedness then S&S is definitely a great building block. Supplement it with a little running and rucking and I bet you'll see great improvements in your performance.

Either way, both fantastic programs.
 
Adam, the ROP ladder progression remains one of the most reliable methods of getting strong in existence—and one that keeps on working for a long time.

Two examples from the latest SFG cert I taught:

A lady named Vicky smoked the Iron Maiden challenge.  She can easily press a 28kg bell—just from follo2ing the ETK ROP.  Our host and my assistant Tim Arnold could only press a 32kg bell last year.  At the cert he pressed a 44kg kettlebell.  He has been following the slightly different ladder progression I outlined in 'Beyond Bodybuilding'.

Ladders never fail; people just give up.
 
"Our host and my assistant Tim Arnold could only press a 32kg bell last year.  At the cert he pressed a 44kg kettlebell.  He has been following the slightly different ladder progression I outlined in ‘Beyond Bodybuilding’."

Pavel, I'm on the RoP again since April now and currently working on compressing the time of 5(5)-ladders with a 32kg-KB. Goal is to reach a 6-8RM with the 36kg-KB.

I would like to try the ladder progression from BB once I move to the 36kg-KB. In BB you prescribe 3-4 days of ladders PLUS a skeleton chest and triceps regimen.

I remember you mentioned RoP is prone to overtraining of the shoulder if you combine it with other training like boxing for example. So what would be appropriate for chest- and triceps-training? Dips in a PttP-fashion after the ladders? Naked Warrior OAPU in a GtG-sytle spread over the week?
 
Would you still recommend pull-ups as well, Pavel? What about if you are fatter than you are strong, like me, and can only do negatives?!  ;)

What I have done is to match the number of C & P reps with pull-ups (up to 3, which is my embarrassingly low max, at the moment).

Maybe I should just bin pull-ups until I can do full pull-ups, then add them into the ladder program?

Also, are the swing and snatch chapters still valid?
 
Mindful - I believe you can sub one arm rows with the bell after each side to match the number of cleans and presses. A student is borrowing my copy of ETK right now otherwise I'd double check for ya.
 
Mindful Man: You can get a giant elastic band and hook your foot in it for a little assist so you can do the ladders:  http://www.performbetter.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product1_10151_10752_1003889_-1?cmp=cel&trigger=ac

 
 
Thank you for the responses!  I will go back to the ROP next week and continue my progression =)
 
Hello Mindful Man,

Would you still recommend pull-ups as well, Pavel? What about if you are fatter than you are strong, like me, and can only do negatives?! ;)

Also, are the swing and snatch chapters still valid?
Click to expand...

Obviously I'm not Pavel but I'll give you my €0.2 anyway...

The swing and snatch portions have worked for A LOT of people over the years. Just because a new book is released doesn't make them obsolete. I use them all the time.

Pullups and C&P is a great match. Keep working on your strength and get your body fat in check and I'm sure you'll be there soon.

Good luck.
 
I have incorporated ladders doing bench press, pullups and double military press.  It's a great way to get volume.  I personally like the ladders done, 2,3,5 style.  If I'm going heavy, 1,2,3.  5 ladders of these get you 30-50 reps

Pavel you said it about ladders
 
MM, do not do pullups yet.  Get leaner and at the same time work your abs with hollow position drills from Hardstyle Abs.  You will be ready to do pullups the right way.
 
I followed the ROP up to mid volume with the 32kg. I was able to press the 40kg for 1-2 reps as well. Around this time I developed shoulder issues (not due to presses; they persisted beyond my cessation of training and didn’t resolve until I began a routine of daily chest expansion and shoulder stretches), which led me away from pressing to other types of training.

This was in 2010, and between then and about two weeks ago I didn’t press much of anything. I decided to get back into the game and much to my surprise (and delight) I was able to C&P the 32kg for 5 reps without risking failure. I’m not creeping back up to mid-range volume and am enjoying my training more than anytime since I took my Pavel-based training hiatus in 2010.

The thing I really love about ladders is the constant flux between refining your skill at the low rung level and slower extrapolating single-rep excellence to 2,3,4 and eventually 5 reps. I always lose a key point here or there with the 4 or 5 rung ladders, but then there's another 1 rung ladder to give me a chance to refocus and hone in on the perfect rep. Then it's time to see how long I can retain it under the strain of volume and fatigue.
 
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