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Old Forum ROP clean and press questions

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streetbobcraig

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This week I started in on ROP and I was wondering if I should clean the KB from the floor for each rep on my ladders or IAW with the instruction Pavel gave on the ETK dvd? I did PM and ROP in the past (I do it in accordance with the AOS workbook) but I cleaned from the floor each time. What are the pros and cons of each method?

My goal is to complete 5 ladders of 5 with a 32kg bell. Right now I own 3x3 with 20kg. I am working the 24kg in on the bottom rung of each ladder, with the first ladder getting the bottom two rungs at 24kg. I plan to continue to add the 24kg in until I can own all rungs of all ladders with it and then do the same with the 32kg (I might use a 28 first though). Does this sound like a sound sustainable methodology to increase my workload?

Thank for any advice or pointers.

Craig
 
Own 5 x 5 ladders with the 20 and then progress to the 24. Mixing in the different bells doesn't work as well. Cleaning from the floor each rep will also take longer and is unnecessary.  It will make you better at the clean, but won't do much for the press which is the goal. Eyes on the prize.
 
Craig, you raise an interesting point.  I can see how doing each clean from the floor might translate into a better heavy single but I think the benefits are limited.  I don't think it's a bad thing but I don't think it will help you much.  So on this point I disagree w/ Joe.

But I agree with him about building up the volume on the 20 kg.  You should work to reach 5 x 1-2-3-4-5.

One point I don't think it discussed often enough is how to handle heavy day volume increases - if you feel you are able to progress more than adding a single rung to your previous week's heavy day, you should go ahead and do that.  Heavy day is your chance to do as much as you can without being "on the nerve" about it, and if your training is going well, you sometimes might find that you are able to effectively skip a week via what you do on a heavy day - and, IMHO, that's perfectly fine to do.

This approach will also have the effect, if you are training with a relatively light weight for you, of getting you finished with the light weight and on to a heavier one for a new round of the ROP, and that again is a good thing.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

 
 
Steve,

Is that to say, on the heavy day I move up volume and not worry about completion of rungs as prescribed?  I figured working a heavier KB into the ladders  as I described  was similar to volume increase in S&S. I guess I am missing something. Thanks for the thoughts on the clean too by the way.
 
You must complete the volume as prescribed on heavy day, but you may do _more_  The structure of the program is such that, if you are working with an appropriate weight for yourself, you likely will _not_ be able to do more and that's also OK.

Most of us start with a relatively light weight, and I don't think there is benefit to spending more time than is needed to reach 5 x (1-2-3-4-5) with a light weight.    If it doesn't take you 12 weeks to get there, so much the better.

I will give you my own example.  I have done the ROP two or three times already.  My open age bracket, half-bodyweight press is 32 kg.  (My Master's requirement is too light so I just stick with the open age requirement.)

Each time I start the ROP, I use 20 kg.  Here's a list of what my heavy days look like

3 x (1-2-3)

4 x (1-2-3)

1 x (1-2-3-4) and 4 x  (1-2-3)  - skipped 5 x (1-2-3)

3 x (1-2-3-4) and 2 x (1-2-3) - skipped 2 x (1-2-3-4)

1 x (1-2-3-4-5) and 4 x (1-2-3-4) - skipped 4 x and 5 x (1-2-3-4)

2 x (1-2-3-4-5) and 3 x (1-2-3-4)

3 x (1-2-3-4-5) and 2 x (1-2-3-4)

5 x (1-2-3-4-5) - skipped 4 x (1-2-3-4)

The program calls for this to take 13 weeks but I did it in 8 instead.

That accomplished, I will take a week off during which I will _not_ bother to test my max press, but I will then start the ROP with a 24 kg and take the full 13 weeks to get to the end, after which I _will_ test my max, which usually comes out to my 1/2 bodyweight of 32 kg.  During the 24 kg ROP, I try to get in some 28 kg singles as doubles as I can.

There is no reason to dawdle on a lightweight run if you don't need to.   If you look at ETK, there are a couple of places when the volume of C&P ladders is described as literally "to limit."  So if your limit moves up by more than the predicted one rung over the course of 7 days, so much the better for you.

Clear as mud? :)

-S-
 
“It’s as easy as “1,2,3… 2,3″

Start the Rite of Passage over as written but instead of using the same bell again, use both the previous bell and one heavier. The rep scheme will change slightly, but the principle remains the same.

Example: 

3-RUNG LADDER = Old Bell x 3,4,5
4-RUNG LADDERS = Old Bell  x3,4,5 + Heavier Bell x (2*)
5-RUNG LADDERS =  Old Bell x 3,4,5 +Heavier Bell x (2,3*)
*The numbers in parentheses can be lowered by  1-rep if necessary.

There are two prerequisites: 

1. You MUST have already completed the ROP with the lighter of the two bells ( pressed the lighter of the two bells for  5 ladders  x 5 rungs...that’s 75 presses per arm in a single day).

AND

2.  You must be able to press the heavier bell for at least 3 perfect reps.

 
 
Wow. That many reps hurts my shoulder thinking about it! Glad I have a ways to go with my simple goal.
 
JSS, you are replying to an old thread. That said, another variation that I have used is to keep the rep scheme the same but swap in the heavier bell for the easier rungs, e.g., if you’ve completed the ROP with 24 kg but can’t do 28 kg x 5, then do

28 kg x 1 and 24 kg x 2-3-4-5

or

28 kg x 1-2 and 24 kg x 3-4-5

A second pass through the ROP would then start with

3 x (28 kg x 1-2, 24 kg x 3)

Bobby Forrest, the ROP is a lot of volume, no doubt about it, but that's one reason it works so well. When the weight is right, one can amass a lot of volume with it and not overtrain, but the right weight is still heavy enough to get the job done.

-S-
 
Keep the inputs coming gents.. this is awesome.. I am learning so much by merely reading the comments
 
Well it works Mark. Steve's advice really got me on track. I finished with the 24 and then rapidly got it with 28kg. Recently I attended The Strong first class and fixed some leaks in my form and managed to clean and press 40 kg (1RM) on both sides. For my next trick I did Dan John's 10,000 swings in a month. I am pretty burned down right now and I am just doung S&S, Fighter Pull up, and light running. I figure that is a pretty good "Park Bench" change of pace. I plan to ramp up for TSC in the fall.
 
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