Kettlebell S&S heart rate training question

[justin84]

In this article by http://www.strongfirst.com/simple-sinister-heart-rate-monitor/ by Al Campia, am I correct in my understanding that you are to do a set of swings and rest enough so that the next set does not put your heart rate above the target rate? If so what is the most amount of time you should be taking with 10x10 sets of swings? Is there any one who has been working on S&S with this method for a good period of time and if so what are your experiences and do you have any pointers? Thanks-Justin

 

[ClaudeR]

Not been working with S&S per se with this format, but with snatches instead, long sessions of many reps. Same thing applies though. I've been doing this for about 8 months now, and it simply works (for my own goals at least, which is long course triathlon so lots of aerobic endurance)
The rest period is irrelevant, take as long as you need to complete the 10x10 under your HR max.

If that is not actually possible with sets of 10 (no matter how long you rest it will still spike over) you'll need to reduce reps and do more sets (12x8, or 14x7, or 18x6, or 20x5... sets of 5 is actually a very good number for snatches), and work until you can up the reps again. The time of rest is irrelevant, after a copule of sessions you will find the HR that you need to drop to to not exceed your limit, that's your pointer.
Another good one is if you feel your swings slow down, you lose power, time to stop the set, and do more sets!

TL;DR: forget the clock, take as much time as you need to recover. You WILL make progress and make the rest times shorter, all by itself

 

[Al Ciampa]

Is there any one who has been working on S&S with this method for a good period of time and if so what are your experiences and do you have any pointers?

I might have ;]

Justin, after a lot of testing and thought, I have concluded that using HR as a guide "for S&S" is not the best course of action, for a number of reasons. This assumes S&S... 10x10 swings, almost daily, with the goal of getting this down to 5min.

Not been working with S&S per se with this format, but with snatches instead, long sessions of many reps. Same thing applies though. I've been doing this for about 8 months now, and it simply works (for my own goals at least, which is long course triathlon so lots of aerobic endurance)
The rest period is irrelevant, take as long as you need to complete the 10x10 under your HR max.

If that is not actually possible with sets of 10 (no matter how long you rest it will still spike over) you'll need to reduce reps and do more sets (12x8, or 14x7, or 18x6, or 20x5... sets of 5 is actually a very good number for snatches), and work until you can up the reps again. The time of rest is irrelevant, after a copule of sessions you will find the HR that you need to drop to to not exceed your limit, that's your pointer.
Another good one is if you feel your swings slow down, you lose power, time to stop the set, and do more sets!

TL;DR: forget the clock, take as much time as you need to recover. You WILL make progress and make the rest times shorter, all by itself

Most accurate Claude. The caveat is this does not attend to "S&S" as a program and more narrow set of goals.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

I have concluded that using HR as a guide "for S&S" is not the best course of action

I suppose, when we do swings, forget the HR then? Personally for me in the past (currently I am not swinging much) using HR has been slowing me down, having to wait 2-3 minutes between sets to bring it down below 120, while I was ready to go for the next set. Go with the "feel"?

 

[Al Ciampa]

I suppose, when we do swings, forget the HR then? Personally for me in the past (currently I am not swinging much) using HR has been slowing me down, having to wait 2-3 minutes between sets to bring it down below 120, while I was ready to go for the next set. Go with the "feel"?

Please do not change the message... "when we do swings" is not necessarily, "S&S".

Waiting 2-3min per set during one, or even several sessions is irrelevant. How are you tracking progress over time?

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Please do not change the message... "when we do swings" is not necessarily, "S&S".

My apologies. I am confused, and still is. Swings-S&S as opposed to what? Swings-A+A? I do not know the difference.

I am tracking progress by counting the sets and reps; and by checking my HR (how much it rises after each set which I learnt from this forum) and how much time do I take to finish each swing session. I am still a work in progress. I realize I will reach the S&S swing goal if I can do 10x10 under 5 minutes when I "test" it.

 

[justin84]

I might have ;]

Justin, after a lot of testing and thought, I have concluded that using HR as a guide "for S&S" is not the best course of action, for a number of reasons. This assumes S&S... 10x10 swings, almost daily, with the goal of getting this down to 5min.



Most accurate Claude. The caveat is this does not attend to "S&S" as a program and more narrow set of goals.

So Al, can I ask what you have found the fest course of action for S & S? And what should you use heart rate monitoring for?

 

[Al Ciampa]

My apologies. I am confused, and still is. Swings-S&S as opposed to what? Swings-A+A? I do not know the difference.

I am tracking progress by counting the sets and reps; and by checking my HR (how much it rises after each set which I learnt from this forum) and how much time do I take to finish each swing session. I am still a work in progress. I realize I will reach the S&S swing goal if I can do 10x10 under 5 minutes when I "test" it.

Not everyone uses swings in the S&S format; and even though the title to this thread states as much, I don't assume the reader is thinking "S&S" style swings when they read my comments.

Assuming the same size bell, if you are resting less between sets in subsequent sessions at either the same HR or PER than you are making progress. If you are resting the same and your HR is decreasing, you are making progress. If your HR drop quicker and lower, you are making progress.

Will this progress get you to the time goal? Unless the bell is light-moderate for you, probably not.

So Al, can I ask what you have found the fest course of action for S & S? And what should you use heart rate monitoring for?

HR can always be used to measure progress, or a lack of, when used with other metrics.

The best COA to get to the time goal with your current bell in the shortest amount of time seems to be using the volume variability approach that Pavel has written extensively about on the blog; the occasional use of a heavier bell; and/or a short glycolytic peaking cycle.

If you have other goals in mind, there are other methods to use.

S&S works well as described in the book.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

Thanks Al.