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Kettlebell S&S + more?

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Paul Sellers

Paul Sellers

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My apologies if this question has been raised previously - I've done a search but didn't find anything.

The prescribed volume for the swing portion of S&S is 100 in total - 50 per arm. The benefits are clear and I've experienced them - stronger shoulders and back, grip, trunk stabilization and rotation etc. However, I'm simply not getting the benefits across my abdominal region that I used to get from hard style two handed swings.

My question is; is there any detriment to adding a couple of hundred two handed hard style swings at the end of the S&S one handed swings before one moves on to the TGU?
 
Ah, there's the rub, banzaiengr. I've been on S&S since March. I've worked up from 24kg for wings to 32kg and from 16kg for TGU to 32kg (just taken possession of a 40kg). I had a decent set of abs from two handed swings before I started S&S. I've made massive gains in shoulder and back strength, grip strength etc, but my abs are now comparatively weak compared to how they were. I'd think by now if single handed swings were going to provide the same benefits in this area they should have by now instead of going backwards?
 
Paul,

What measurement(s) are you using to compare your pre- & post- abdominal strength?
 
Al - since I didn't specifically measure pre S&S abdominal strength it's hard to quantify, however my ability to perform the Russian Twist has declined as has my ability to perform hard style two handed swings. I've tried to use hard style on the single handed swing but find this problematic due to the weight and rotational factors.
 
Paul,

Maybe you're too heavy on the 1-h swings? Try this:

10 x 2h
10 x right
10 x left
repeat for 90-150 total
 
Paul, just to add a little to what Al said - there's no reason you can't prefer 2h swings to 1h swings. They each yield a different result, so find a mix that works well for you. From your own description, I'd say your 1h swings are likely heavier than you really should be using, given your current form and strength on the 1h swing - switch to a lighter weight, dial in your form, and aim for maximum explosiveness. Find a weight that is not "problematic due to the weight and rotational factors" and do your swings with that weight until you really own it, and don't worry about how light it may be. Balance that out with 2h swings with a heavy enough weight that you get the results you want.

The total volume of 100 swings isn't written in stone, either - you should feel free to try a higher total and see how it works for you. Just progress gradually, as you did to reach 100.

-S-
 
So you didn't do any 2h swings at all?
The way i understand S&S and follow it is you go from 2h swings and gradually replace them with 1h swings until you own them (100swings/5min). Then you move up in weight but start with 2h swings and again gradually replace them by 1h swings.
 
S&S as written is just 1H swings, after working up to the 10x10 1H. Page 51: "A couple of months down the road when your own-arm swing is solid, it will be the only version you will be using."

But I am adding back some 2H swings after doing exclusively 1H for several months, and yes, I feel it in the abs! Our gym just got all kinds of new kettlebells in, including 32, 36, 40, 48, 56, and 68kg. So, lots to work with...

I did that set you recommended yesterday, Al, worked great. 24kg for 1H and 32kg for 2H.
 
Steve, Anna and kettlebelephant - thanks for your comments/suggestions. The only part of a 1h swing that is problematic is when I try to do them "hard style" and force the bell back down. Generating power and keeping stable in terms of rotation with the 32kg isn't an issue - it's getting a bit tame to be honest which is why I've bought the 40kg. I've been using KB's for 2.5 years now and worked up to 500 hard style 2h swings per day 3 times per week before starting S&S and yes - I gradually worked in the 1h.

I think I read somewhere on this forum that trying to do hard style 1h swings is suicide for the knees as when the other hand isn't there to guide you risk taking out your knee. From what's been said so far it seems to be ok to either mix up 1h and 2h or, as per my original question, complete the S&S 1h sets then throw in some 2h.

I guess i just miss going all out with 2h hard style swings. Time to add them back in 8o)
 
hello everyone,
I am facing similar problem myself.i have completely owned simple goal,along with gaining lot of muscle and little fat.Wide back,thick waist,fully satisfied with the results.

Senior please advice 2-3 days a week swing program with main focus on trimming the waist.

note:right now diet is dialed in.(low carb)
I have 24,32,40 in my possession
 
Paul, I think you are confusing "hard style" with "shadow swings". They are not the same thing.

Hard style is just the idea of keeping the moves strong, crisp and forceful. All swings should be done this way.

Shadow swings are where you actively throw the kettlebell back between the legs. It's something you "add" to hard style, and the S&S book specifically says to do them with around 30% bodyweight, and only 2-handed. I don't have the book here at work, so I don't know the page. But I don't think you're supposed to be doing shadow swings with 1-handed swings.
 
AH HAH! Thank you, Jason! That's where I'm getting confused. In that case I have no problem doing "hard style" 1h swings - none at all. And it was shadow swings (apparently) that I used to do 500 x 3 times per week prior to S&S.

So back to my original question - is there any detriment to blasting out a couple of hundred shadow swings after the S&S 100 1h hard style swings (or maybe after the TGU's)?

Apologies to all for any confusion my ignorance has caused - if nothing else I now know what a shadow swing is 8o)
 
Paul, are you doing get-ups? How heavy? A combination of one-arm swings and get-ups should take care of your abs—once the weight is heavy enough (and 32 is).
 
Pavel, I am doing 32kg get ups and and 1h swings @ 32kg as prescribed in S&S. I am close to the simple goal and have bought a 40kg ready to transition to that weight. My abs are strong, front and side, but don't feel quite as powerful as when I was knocking out 500 32kg shadow swings three times a week.
 
Update on this - I've been aware of a "brief" hiatus in my practice due family matters. I took a look back through my training log (they are useful in so many ways!) and got a bit of a shock. My "brief" hiatus turns out to be a three month gap with virtually no practice and certainly no S&S. I'm de-trained. No wonder my abs aren't what they were - neither is the rest of me! Time to drop a bell size and get back into it.
 
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