Old Forum S&S: TGU's progressing much faster than swings

[rickyw]

I have been doing S&S for a few months now, about 4 times a week. My TGUs have started to really progress much faster than my swings (still working with 24kg on swings) and I will likely be able to comfortably pass the simple TGU goals within the next three weeks. This actually surprises me because I am more of an ectomorph. I am really trying to be patient with my swings as per Pavel's instructions instead of toasting myself trying to hit 5 minutes.

My question is, once I reach the simple TGU goals, should I progress to a heavier bell or start working on the clean and press section of ROP? I have S&S on audio, can't remember if Pavel mentioned anything about this, he might have.

I am hoping to eventually work through the progression Dan John wrote about here: http://www.strongfirst.com/things-are-going-so-well-help-me-screw-it-up-part-2/, hence the desire to start clean and press for ROP.

Any help is greatly appreciated. And for the record, kettlebells are the best fitness tool that I have ever been introduced to. So glad I found all this.

 

[Pnigro]

I was stuck on my swings until I re-read the "speed endurance" and "hardstyle laziness" chapters of Simple & Sinister.

With swings, the details really matter.

Also, forget about the time goals for a few weeks. Just take as much time as you need with the swings. Then test yourself again and see how you do.

 

[rickyw]

Thank you,

I actually haven't tested myself per say with swings, just keeping an eye on the clock to gauge progress. If I remember the idea is to build power endurance via the aerobic system instead of using glycolysis, yes? Therefore, hitting the 5 minute mark should be something that can be done easily and over and over because the aerobic/ATP-PC systems are conditioned properly, not from burning out while testing.

Any advice on C&P vs TGU?

Thanks

 

 

 

[ali]

In the book PAvel does say that you may reach the standards for swings and get ups at a different rate. Word of warning though, things change with the 32. I found the swings easier going from 16 to 24 cycles., reaching the standards before the get ups. When I started the 32, working in one hands and taking as much rest as needed, i could do the 10 get ups. Once I had my 10x10 one hand swings and i started to compress the rests, my get ups went pear shaped. I do 6 on average, 4 with a 24 and I'm on 7/7.30 ish with the swings.  I don't know if this is normal, whatever normal is but it is highly individual, I think, how each person develops with the many, many variables to consider.  having not completed the simple yet myself, I 'm not in a position really to offer any advice between programs other than to say to reserve judgement until you've chucked the 32 about for a while. You may well sail through it, or like me, it may knock you sideways.

 

[rickyw]

Interesting insight Alistair thank you. It sounds like the best idea is to stay with the TGU and patiently practice it and let the swings come along!

 

[Stuart Elliott]

I've experienced the same as Alistair when progressing with the heavier bells. I can do 10x10 swings with the 40kg, not timed but 5 -10 breaths rest. But still mostly using the 32 for get ups, with 1 or 2 each arm with the 40kg. Prior to reaching the 40kg my tgus were progressing quicker. I'm assuming its to do with my body adjusting to swings with the heavier bell and my tgus will in time catch up.

 

[TravisS]

and just for comparison, I'm the opposite of stuart...  I can only do about 40-50 swings with the 40kg and yet I can get thru all 10 TGUs with my 40kg.  It really is all individual.

 

[crash123]

im more like like Travis - my TGUs have always been ahead of my swings - and to throw in a C&P comment, i have added C&P ladders to my S&S training.  My reasoning is i wanted to gain some experience with KB C&Ps, as i had only been a barbell C&P guy in the past, plus my TGUs are smooth and easy at 40kg, but i dont have a 48kg to work with.  my swings with the 40kg still need a couple of months before i will get them close to 5 mins.  This mix has been working well for me for a few weeks now - but note - i am very conscious of not overdoing the "pressing" - since working both TGUs and C&P- so my C&P ladders incorporate one "heavy" day per 7 day cycle and the rest of my C&P training days are "light".  My objective is to meet the Sinister goals of S&S, ideally 12 to 15 months from now, and simply to learn solid C&P technique.

 

[brian d]

I'm better on the get ups, too, as it sounds like many others are.

The party line is definitely to hit the simple goals before moving on.  And that would be the whole simple goals, swings then get ups.  You'll be happy your get ups are ahead of your swings when it comes to doing them 1 minute after the swing test.

But that doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.  I started following these methods back when ETK was first published (which is not that long compared to others).  At that time, it was practice your swings and get ups via the PM, but there was no weight standard before moving onto ROP.  So perhaps I don't feel as wedded to the simple goals before all else like others do.  I also hit the simple standards just after the S and S book came out, so that might be the other reason I'm not as wedded to them.

In your case, I'd stick with the current program for another couple months.  If you don't hit the standards by then, reevaluate.  It might be that doing something slightly different will help catapult your progress.  I'm a big fan of the 'same but different' approach to training.  Perhaps the clean will improve your swing a lot.  Maybe whatever you do on variety days (deadlift?) will help improve that swing as well.  And of course, you'll be swinging quite a bit on ROP.

The other idea is to play around with the clean and press as Marchese mentioned.  But note he said his get ups were quite easy for him.  As you haven't got them under 10 minutes with ease, I would personally not do that just yet.

Oh, and one other thing.  If you are thinking of moving on to ROP before fully completing the simple standards, I would only do so if you are able to do it with a 24kg.  If you have to start with a 16kg, you would get far more out of staying on S and S with the 32kg.

And one other option that could help you get some more progress going might be to add a 5th session some weeks.  A bump in volume often (though certainly not always) can mean a bump in progress.

Whatever you do, definitely keep us updated.

 

[rickyw]

Thanks for the advice/comments everyone. I'll keep ya posted. I am really enjoying this program-3 months into it and I still look forward to it!