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Kettlebell S&S with Soju and Tuba press program

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Paul Lasicki

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Hi,
My shoulders have always been a weak area for me. Just wondering if adding Soju and Tuba Press program to S&S is a good idea or will be too much for the shoulders.
Thanks
 
@Paul Lasicki IMO, combining programs typically yields marginal results on both ends as you may feel like neither is progressing. Although, the Soju & Tuba Press Program could definitely be practiced in a GTG fashion along with S&S.

If I was in your shoes, I would work S&S 5 days per week for 6 weeks to build a solid groove for your Getup rhythm and then begin to add in the pressing program in a GTG fashion. All the best.
 
Hello,

@Paul Lasicki
S&S on a stand alone is in itself very good to reinforce shoulders. I can say it because my left shoulder was clearly less stronger than the right.

Slow pull ups with a full range of motion are also a good exercise, in combination with dips / push ups

If I were you, I'd use S&S only during a few month, at least to see where it goes. Then, you could use a "S&S like" with Press / bent press and still swings (or snatch to get more focus on shoulders)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
What do you mean by "weak"? Do you mean they're not strong or that they are problematic?

In the first case, a pure pressing program is better than S&S, in the second one, it would be advisable to see a professional before engaging in any of the two.

However, there is a hybrid of S&S and RoP that, I think, is based on two exercises: swings like in S&S, press ladders like in RoP. @Steve Freides knows more on this subject than I do, and I don't think there's a valid report about this program, meaning it might work, it might not. From my very modest experience, it should yeld results in both movements and the benefits that come with them.

I tend to stick with semplicity though, and, if time is not a problem, I'll go again with @natewhite39 and tell you to stick to a program at a time.

Soju and Tuba, from what I understand and I never tried it, has a relatively low volume and can be implemented in other programs, but doing heavy get ups and presses on the same session... Well, I'm not sure of this but it could actually worsen your shoulder's situation without improving much of anything.

What I'm doing right now is Rite of Passage like this: press ladders with rows (I'm implementing pull ups - very few 'cause I'm bad at them - when I move to the basement), heavy swings (low reps, waving number of sets and with "lots" of rest in between); varity days are for heavy get ups like in S&S plus LSD runs (replaced by swings until my ankle heals). I might (read will) had Karate practice (thanks @Kozushi, I realize just now that I never thanked you for the books you recommended) in the near future.

It's working for me right now (ankle injury is completely unconnected with kettlebell training).
 
Frank_IT said:
What I'm doing right now is Rite of Passage like this: press ladders with rows (I'm implementing pull ups - very few 'cause I'm bad at them - when I move to the basement), heavy swings (low reps, waving number of sets and with "lots" of rest in between); varity days are for heavy get ups like in S&S plus LSD runs (
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This sounds good to me.

I now do, and feel I can recommend, this:

1. Swing. Follow guidelines on weight selection, technique, reps/sets/rests from S&S or other A+A source. Most important point - nose-breath only during all recovery, even after last set.

2. Rest until fully recovered. Absolute minimum is 3 minutes, 10 is much better, half-hour or longer is ideal.

3. Train strength. Follow StrongFirst guidelines and programs.

-S-
 
S&T is very low volume (only 4-18reps) and Joey Yang also says that it's no problem to continue doing other lifts like squats, deadlifts etc.
Is see absolutely no problem with a mixed approach. Just do 6 days/week of S&S but every second day (e.g. Mon-Wed-Fr) replace the TGUs with the S&T presses.
 
Hello,

As the article says:
"Training can be done three times a week for a total of six weeks, or if you consider yourself to be high endurance, you can do this every other day for a total of 36 days."

It also says:
"I was still training my squat, deadlift, and pull-ups while doing this program, and they all seemed to progress fine (super setting with pull-ups works great). If you have the time and resources, I think you can also do this program while training the bench press as long as you take the GTG approach"

This is a very flexible program.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Kettlebelephant said:
S&T is very low volume (only 4-18reps) and Joey Yang also says that it's no problem to continue doing other lifts like squats, deadlifts etc.
Is see absolutely no problem with a mixed approach. Just do 6 days/week of S&S but every second day (e.g. Mon-Wed-Fr) replace the TGUs with the S&T presses.
Click to expand...

There are absolutely no problems in combining the programs. You can scale back on the get-ups and do them as assessments instead. @Paul Lasicki try for yourself and see how it goes. Everybody is different.
 
I a just started doing S&T with S&S, it works great so far.
Though I should probably add that my get-up bell should probably be bigger than it is now, but currently I don't have a bigger one.
 
I am doing the soju and tuba for presses. I think it is compatible with some get ups and swings using the sort of template ROP is based on
 
I am going to give this program a shot next week in combo with some heavy swings/light snatches while GTG'ing pull ups. I stopped ROP after reaching 4 rungs for 2 of 5 sets with the 20kg; just finding that the amount of pressing while also doing BJJ 2-3 times a week is beating me up a bit.

It will be interesting to find see if less volume is better for me. I'm going to run it with a 22 kg and hopefully give you guys some results in six weeks. I can only press the 24kg crisply twice with the left hand but can do 7 crisp presses with the 20 kg so I decided to go with the 22.
 
This isn't directed specifically at the OP or anyone really, just some thoughts I've had recently. I'm a strange person, so I recently put all the pressing plans I could think of in a spreadsheet to compare the progression of volume, total volume per various time units, and personal and reported results etc.

An interesting thing I noted was that the Soju and Tuba program has a very similar volume to just the heavy sessions of ROP. Weekly volume is similar but varies a bit as Soju waves while ROP steps, but the 6 week total is within a few reps.

It made me wonder how the results would compare between SAS + Soju vs. SAS + 1 heavy ROP day. Much less frequent practice with 1 day ROP, but much larger blocks of recovery. Of course you'd have to be able to do 3x1,2,3 to start, and climbing ladders might be tough with only 1 day a week. But if over training is the concern you could have a rest day before and after press day, or even 2 rest days after pressing.

Based on my admittedly limited and haphazard experience and in the theme of keeping the goal the goal, if the goal is SAS, fewer press days a week might be better for not interfering with TGU's.
 
Hello,

If we consider the same logic as in S&S, grinds go before ballistics so it would be Press before Swing

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
masa said:
Which one you do first; swings or presses?
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Swings.

The rule of thumb is to flow in the order of: 1) Power, 2) Strength, 3) Endurance

S&S Swings are a power move. S&T press is a strength move. Hence, swing then press. This is why Swings come before TGUs in S&S practice.

If you're following different programming for your swing (for example higher reps) and using it as a strength-endurance move, then you would press first.
 
Hello,

El Cid said:
The rule of thumb is to flow in the order of: 1) Power, 2) Strength
Click to expand...
Yes indeed, it depends on what you are focusing on.

Basically, the more you want to progress on a move or physcial characteristic (power, strength and so on), the more you have to do it while you are fresh...so at the beginning of the training. Knowing that, S&S and S&S are so flexible that you can easily manage them to reach your goals.

As I am more an "endurance guy" than a "strength" guy, I do my grinds first. My swings progress much more faster than the other moves.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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