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Old Forum Simple and Sinister Frequency

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kimbal

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Hello everyone,

I have been following S&S since November and I am now doing 100 swings per session, following Steve Freides' article on mixing one-handed swings with two hands, and  the occasional set of five left handed and five right handed. I am also doing 10 Turkish get ups per session in under 10 minutes and although I do not yet 'own' the movement, I feel it is progressing well. On days following practice, I have plenty of energy and a little muscular stiffness, but not soreness.

The problem is that although I finish each session stronger than I started, treating each as a practice session, if I train two days consecutively, my upper back and hamstrings become VERY sore the next day. I still have plenty of energy, but I feel it would be unsafe to train through this soreness. Should I train through it every day to allow adaptation to occur? Or should I stay with training 3 times per week? Sorry for the long post but I thought I'd best give some context.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

 
 
You can go to an easier version when you feel sore--do "shadow swings" with 30% bodyweight; decrease the get up weight and hold the positions longer.Unless you are participating in other athletics;heavy weight training; you should be able to do S and S almost daily without undue fatigue and pain.

 

Be sure you are performing the exercises correctly--send a video to be critiqued if wish.
 
s f, thank you for the response!

I have done shadow swings and lighter Turkish get ups before but only when I have felt lethargic; not when physically sore, so I will certainly give that a try to see if it helps recovery. If the soreness persists then I may upload a video to get my form checked, thank you!
 
Mark, he said upper back.   I found my infraspinitus muscle to get sore from holding my shoulder packed when it was a new movement or a heavy weight.  Mine passed fairly quickly
 
Ok my apologies. What size bell do you use and how much do you weigh?

 

If you are sore, you can use shadow swings and unloaded getups just to help you dial in a few details of the movements
 
Kimbal, When I transitioned between 2 bells I could not even swing with the bigger bell for 2 days after. So I had to do something like this:

Day1 Big bell for everything (swings took ~26 min, TGU took 20 min)
Day2: "smaller bell" for 1h swings. Big bell for TGU
Day3: "smaller bell" for 1h swings. Small bell for TGU
Day4: Big bell for everything.
Day5: Big bell 2h swings, small bell TGU.
Day6 & 7 Off

The following months after I did more and more with the bigger bell until I could use it all the time for everything. Sometimes things take time, let it take time.
 
Mark, I am using a 24kg kettlebell for both the swings and the get-ups. I do sets of 10 swings every minute on the minute and I am consistently finishing the 10 get-ups in under 10 minutes. I weigh about 55kg. Following the program minimum is causing my legs, shoulders and neck to become more muscular but my bodyweight is not really changing.

SuperJoel, thank you for the insight- I will put it into practice, doing lighter swings and/or unloaded get-ups on days when I feel lethargic or sore, and I will post here to let you know how I get on with it after a few days.

Thanks again to everyone for responding
 
Kimbal, as Mark mentioned earlier, it is always beneficial to get your form checked.  Post a video just to make sure you are solid on your form.
 
First, there's nothing wrong with training through soreness (pain is different than soreness), it's often quite beneficial. Second, if you've been doing the program more than a week and are still getting soreness, it's almost certainly a technique flaw of some sort. Ideally check with an instructor, failing that post a video.
 
If you are 55kg consider that a 24kg is already more than 40%vw so it will take more from you vs someone weighing in the 80 and up range...

 

Now, if your goal is to put on muscle, I would do something else other than s and s

 

 
 
Everyone, thank you for the advice.

Since Mark, Travis and Jason advised a form check, I was conscious of my form during yesterday's swing session. My grip is the weak link in one-armed swings and as such I was unconsciously squatting the swing a bit and letting my shoulder slightly rise, so I tried using magnesium sulphate chalk to improve my grip- and suddenly I could hold on to the weight with ease and I was able to hinge with full power, keeping my shoulder packed. It was the first time I was able to feel my lats working in one-armed swings. Today I am a bit stiff, not sore so I will have another session later today and let you know how I feel with respect to soreness tomorrow.

Mark, my goal is not to put on muscle. I am aiming to reach the Simple goals, and then advance on to the Rite of Passage or Sinister goals eventually.

Thanks again everyone
 
Post a video if you choose and have an sfg take a look.  Its always nice to get feedback to make sure you are doing everything correctly.
 
Hi everyone, I had another S&S session, focusing on my form (and using chalk), and I completed 80 swings and 10 get-ups. I am much less sore now even with lifting on consecutive days, now that I am focusing on my form but unfortunately the chalk had taught me a lesson about looking after the calluses on my fingers! I will try to get a video recorded of my form as soon as my hand heals.

Thanks again everyone for the advice, I have learned a lot!
 
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