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Kettlebell Single KB vs Double KB work

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Doug

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Hi all,

I feel like that I get more of a workout with single kB work. I have a 24kg and two 20kg bells and I feel like the 24kg is a monster to my core ( I have lower lumbar issues). Does this happen to anyone else? Or does this mean that I need to work the single bell twice as much as the doubles?
 
Welcome to the forum !!

Be more specific. Which exercise(s) do you practice ?

And I find double kb work more "monster" than single kb work.

To be more specifik I find Bent Press monster on my obliques sometimes. But overall double kb work should be most monstrous of all due to extra load.

Another thing I recently discovered with my single kb training (rop) is that my press is too relaxed when using one bell. opposed to two. This can make a weight feel seriously heavy, while it isn't. So when using a single bell make sure you contract your entire body instead of focusing on the loaded side. To make full use of the strength of irradiation squeeze them glutes and abs really hard.
 
Uh depends. I would say for doubles Cleans, Presses, Snatches and Front Squat are harder variations. For Singles 1 handed swings are harder to me then even double (if heavy enough) and off course all the traditional single lifts Bent press, TGU, Windmill etc.
 
I feel like that I get more of a workout with single kB work. I have a 24kg and two 20kg bells and I feel like the 24kg is a monster to my core ( I have lower lumbar issues). Does this happen to anyone else? Or does this mean that I need to work the single bell twice as much as the doubles?
@Doug, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

I agree with you - I also have lower back issues, and the one-armed standing military press is a key lift for me.

If by twice as much, no, but you do need to work both sides so, e.g., the rough equivalent of pressing two x 20 kg bells for 5 reps would be doing a single bell for 5 reps, switching sides, and doing 5 more reps but this time for your other side. In this way, single bell work does take longer.

-S-
 
Hi all,

I feel like that I get more of a workout with single kB work. I have a 24kg and two 20kg bells and I feel like the 24kg is a monster to my core ( I have lower lumbar issues). Does this happen to anyone else? Or does this mean that I need to work the single bell twice as much as the doubles?
I have lower back stuff as well. Remember, tension is your friend, HARD tension. I go thru a mental checklist before any press, it goes like this..

- Press your feet hard into the floor
- Grip the floor with your toes
- Pull up the knee caps
- Tense glutes
- Apply abdominal pressure
- Pull the lats down hard
- Pull scapulas into your back pockets
- Crush the handles
- Flex forearms (slightly tilt fist to small finger)
- Press with low shoulders and imagine abdominal pressure forcing the weight up

Do not:
- Hyperextend the lower back
- Let off the gas pedal on applied tension

I know it's alot but on the reps I do with all these points applied I don't feel the weight much at all. The engine is tension and abdominal pressure, the actual press is only a small part of the effort. This applies to squats as well, think of a squat as a moving hard rack.

If you practice this way you'll feel somewhat mentally drained as well as physically, and the carry over to all training is insanely effective.
Think of tension as your Ironman suit and protective shell.
 
I have lower back stuff as well. Remember, tension is your friend, HARD tension. I go thru a mental checklist before any press, it goes like this..

- Press your feet hard into the floor
- Grip the floor with your toes
- Pull up the knee caps
- Tense glutes
- Apply abdominal pressure
- Pull the lats down hard
- Pull scapulas into your back pockets
- Crush the handles
- Flex forearms (slightly tilt fist to small finger)
- Press with low shoulders and imagine abdominal pressure forcing the weight up

Do not:
- Hyperextend the lower back
- Let off the gas pedal on applied tension

I know it's alot but on the reps I do with all these points applied I don't feel the weight much at all. The engine is tension and abdominal pressure, the actual press is only a small part of the effort. This applies to squats as well, think of a squat as a moving hard rack.

If you practice this way you'll feel somewhat mentally drained as well as physically, and the carry over to all training is insanely effective.
Think of tension as your Ironman suit and protective shell.

Awesome post!

That's been my takeaway from all the StrongFirst courses and certs... MORE tension. You think you're getting tight... but no. Get tighter. WAY tighter. Plug ALL the energy leaks. Turn into a board. Tighter!!!!!!!!!!!

Magical things happen with strength, when you learn to do this.
 
@Anna C : I am just a beginner and sometimes I feel that this extra tension drains energy. Does one adapt to feed-forward tension so that it becomes less fatiguing?
 
@Anna C : I am just a beginner and sometimes I feel that this extra tension drains energy. Does one adapt to feed-forward tension so that it becomes less fatiguing?

That's a great question. I'm not sure if I know the correct StrongFirst answer, but I'll give my opinion. A few things come to mind:

1) The tension is part of the exercise itself. It builds strength, creates stress which drives adaptation and increased ability as you practice it. So if you were to apply maximum tension while pressing a 12kg bell, you would be getting quite a workout even though the press itself is pretty easy. I would argue that you would build strength doing this. I could be wrong... but I think you would be. So instead of thinking of it intitively (i.e., why waste energy on this extra tension when I need all the available energy to get through this session of presses), just accept the counterintuitive idea that applying this extra energy in the form of tension will move you more effectively towards your goals. Yes, you might have to step down in weight, sets, or reps -- but the training will be of higher quality and will get you farther in the long run.

2) Tension is like the "volume knob" concept in S&S, in that you develop your capacity for maximum and then you learn to dial it back. You learn to apply maximum power in the swing, then you learn to dial it back to the amount of tension needed for a given weight or "volume knob" of swing. Same with tension when performing a strength move. Practice maximum, increase your capacity to generate maximum, then learn to dial it back to the amount you need to move a given weight.

3) You want to learn to plug ALL the leaks, so that you can move heavier weight, so that you can get stronger, so that you can move heavier weights, all the while doing it safely... it's an important component to acheiving greater strength without suffering setbacks or injuries. So even once you learn to dial it back, you always want to err on the side of "slightly more tension than is required" rather than "slightly less tension than you think is required", so that if you get off balance or something else unexpected happens, you're more in control.

4) As far as, "does it become less fatiguing," yes, I think it becomes much less fatiguing with practice. Taking the get-up as an example, when you watch someone do one for the first time, they are hyped-up, sweating, breathing shallowly, and moving stiffly. As they practice and get bettter, they are relaxed-tight, breathing more evenly, and moving gracefully. The application of tension is like this, too. The body learns to do it gracefully and calmly, with practice.
 
@AnnaC
Yes, thanks!
Your #4 is really interesting--doing a heavy TGU with relaxed-tight motion is a great feeling. My main exercise before kettlebells was martial arts, mainly aikido, so the idea that tension was good and desirable took a lot of getting used to.
 
@Doug, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

I am just a beginner and sometimes I feel that this extra tension drains energy. Does one adapt to feed-forward tension so that it becomes less fatiguing?
@Bauer, yes, you'll become used to it, but don't confuse full-body tension with a "psyche" - save the drama for the competition, and learn to unemotionally produce full body tension. Not only will you get used to it, but your lifts will improve in both safety and performance as a result. I am saying much the same thing as @Anna C said in her #4 item.

-S-
 
Welcome to the forum !!

Be more specific. Which exercise(s) do you practice ?

And I find double kb work more "monster" than single kb work.

To be more specifik I find Bent Press monster on my obliques sometimes. But overall double kb work should be most monstrous of all due to extra load.

Another thing I recently discovered with my single kb training (rop) is that my press is too relaxed when using one bell. opposed to two. This can make a weight feel seriously heavy, while it isn't. So when using a single bell make sure you contract your entire body instead of focusing on the loaded side. To make full use of the strength of irradiation squeeze them glutes and abs really hard.

Well the main exercises that crush me are the cleans and presses with one bell. I will practice contracting the entire body during these exercises. The bent press also wears me out due to the demand on the obliques and lats.
 
@Doug, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

I agree with you - I also have lower back issues, and the one-armed standing military press is a key lift for me.

If by twice as much, no, but you do need to work both sides so, e.g., the rough equivalent of pressing two x 20 kg bells for 5 reps would be doing a single bell for 5 reps, switching sides, and doing 5 more reps but this time for your other side. In this way, single bell work does take longer.

-S-
Steve,

I feel like mastering the one arm press and TGUs are probably going to be the key. I'm experienced with lifting heavy weights and they pale in comparison to how they work my core with kettlebells.
 
I have lower back stuff as well. Remember, tension is your friend, HARD tension. I go thru a mental checklist before any press, it goes like this..

- Press your feet hard into the floor
- Grip the floor with your toes
- Pull up the knee caps
- Tense glutes
- Apply abdominal pressure
- Pull the lats down hard
- Pull scapulas into your back pockets
- Crush the handles
- Flex forearms (slightly tilt fist to small finger)
- Press with low shoulders and imagine abdominal pressure forcing the weight up

Do not:
- Hyperextend the lower back
- Let off the gas pedal on applied tension

I know it's alot but on the reps I do with all these points applied I don't feel the weight much at all. The engine is tension and abdominal pressure, the actual press is only a small part of the effort. This applies to squats as well, think of a squat as a moving hard rack.

If you practice this way you'll feel somewhat mentally drained as well as physically, and the carry over to all training is insanely effective.
Think of tension as your Ironman suit and protective shell.

Bret,

Thanks for this tip. I will try this mental checklist when I get home tonight. I have tried this before during deadlifts after reading Pave's Power to the People and discovered that I tend to leak power through my chest during deadlifts. I don't think I have mastered the tension concept completely.
 
The gymnastics rings are forcing me to tense up. TGUs also force you to tense up. It is easier to get away with less tension in swings, which isn't good!
 
95% of what I've done over the past few years have been single bell. My pinion, especially since you have chronic back issues, is just stick to the single bell for a while. You'll get plenty strong with one bell. Test with the doubles from time to time and see if they still feel like they're crushing you.

I mainly use doubles only for high rep jerks (which is flipping grueling). My strength training is mostly with single bell exercises and I've been happy.
 
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