NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
Obviously, it takes great strength and technical ability to achieve either Sinister or Beast Tamer/Iron Maiden. But would you rate one more elite than the other? Or are they equally impressive?
Kettlebell Sinister vs Beast Tamer.
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I wouldn't say more elite but I believe sinister is definitely more attainable for lighter individuals than BT/IM
just my humble 2 cents
just my humble 2 cents
I think they are equally impressive.
Sinister takes perseverance, fortitude, and a certain lack of ego... A willingness to put in time, see ebbs and flows, and just keep training without a lot of glory. You own the achievement and ability.
BT/IM takes excellent programming, laser focus, trust in a coach (I believe this is key -- someone to hold you back from pushing too hard), an ability to juggle competing demands, and a willingness to let training drive your ability and elicit some specific adaptations. The achievement owns you, for a while.
Sinister takes perseverance, fortitude, and a certain lack of ego... A willingness to put in time, see ebbs and flows, and just keep training without a lot of glory. You own the achievement and ability.
BT/IM takes excellent programming, laser focus, trust in a coach (I believe this is key -- someone to hold you back from pushing too hard), an ability to juggle competing demands, and a willingness to let training drive your ability and elicit some specific adaptations. The achievement owns you, for a while.
I have not looked real close, but I think more gents have attained BT than Sinister, more ladies have attained Sinister than the gents, and the IM's and the Sinister ladies look pretty close. All very impressive.
Ability to suffer is a prerequisite for Sinister.
Ability to suffer is a prerequisite for Sinister.
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User 4484
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Is there a program out there for those who train for BT/IM? I only know of Andrew Reads book Beast Tamer but I have never hear of anyone reached BT/IM with help from it’s programming.
NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
Thank you! I was about to ask the same question! ?
I don't know of any free programs out there.
If I wrote one, it would look something like this:
1) Get really strong, including some specific hypertrophy work for the upper body
2) Study all of Pavel's books and thoroughly learn his training principles like feed-forward tension, abdominal strength, and dominata*
3) Get (stay) really lean
4) Get (stay) mobile and injury-free
5) Get a thorough assessment of starting point before targeted traning, and hire a coach to write a custom program to achieve the goal at the right time to attend and event and test for it.
*On "dominata", I found this great definition on a 10-yr old post on @Brett Jones' blog:
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NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
Would Rite of Passage or Red Zone be good base programs for Beast Tamer/Iron Maiden? Both have lots of Pressing of course, and RoP even includes Pull Ups.
Absolutely! They would develop the right strengths and skills, and doing programs of this nature teaches you so much -- about progression, assessment, the nature of strength building, your body's response to stimulus, dealing with challenges and setbacks that inevitably arise during the course of a training program, balancing tension/relaxation, training/recovery, etc.
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Speaking of beast taming and dominata:
I witnessed a successful beast challenge a few years ago by a guy named Andy Speer (IIRC, he said he was about 180 or 185lbs, and had a lanky build) at an Easy Strength seminar given by Dan John and Pavel (I know @Steve Freides was in attendance as well).
He killed the press and especially the pullup (he did a double just for fun). On the pistol he lost balance and touched his free leg on his first attempt.
Pavel pulled him aside and said something to him and he nailed the second attempt easily. Afterwards, he said Pavel told him to relax and deliberately "anti-psyche" before the second attempt, then just make the lift. Pavel used it to illustrate that different lifts have different levels of optimial arousal (for example deadlift = high arousal; pistol = low).
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Speaking of Iron Maiden....
Saw an amazing feat online recently...
SFG Jackie Michaels Vazquez, who had attained Iron Maiden 2 years ago, just completed 5 REP IRON MAIDEN, 24kg Pistol, Press, and Pull-Up -- 5 reps on all -- and both sides on pistol and press!
It's certainly the first time I've heard of such a thing being done. Super strong!!
Saw an amazing feat online recently...
SFG Jackie Michaels Vazquez, who had attained Iron Maiden 2 years ago, just completed 5 REP IRON MAIDEN, 24kg Pistol, Press, and Pull-Up -- 5 reps on all -- and both sides on pistol and press!
It's certainly the first time I've heard of such a thing being done. Super strong!!
Alexander Halford
Level 8 Valued Member
All greatly said... No glory seen, but achieving (and maintaining) Sinister is a monstrous base for almost everything. It leaves an imprint. And makes, what others consider a suffering, to you - a habit.
This is spot on.
I might also add that pushing up your maximum strength with barbell work here is a faster way for many, if not most, to reach this goal. There is greater systemic demand with a barbell than by just using a single KB.
When I did my BT, my only concern was the pull up. So I ran a specific, but short, pull up cycle. My legs and upper body were already plenty strong from Oly lifting.
For example, one of my current clients is working toward the BTC. He's doing primarily barbell work and just PR'd his KB press a couple days ago without doing any KB press work. His pistol is also coming along nicely because we (a) changed his technique and (b) are focusing on Zercher squats. He's also put on close to 10 pounds of LBM.
Hope this is helpful.
NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
Conversely, does that mean that Beast Tamer/Iron Maiden is better suited for heavier athletes?
For the press, I would say so..
Consider that if an individual is about 96kg, that means his level 2 press is the 48kg..
NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
I understand what you're saying, but I think it would even itself out. The Pull Up with the 48kg bell would mean the same individual is hauling 300lbs over the bar.
That usually is the challenge for most. Not insurmountable though
Time will tell if things change though
Karen Smith
Level 6 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Iron Maiden
@Steve Freides thanks for tagging me.
@NormanOsborn - should you decide you would like to focus on the BT, this is something I program for often and have helped many of achieve.
I would not say it is better suited for heavier.
Heavier makes the pullup harder for some but the press easier and the exact opposite for those who are lighter. IMO it is finding the exactly balance of muscle/strength vs BF.
@NormanOsborn - should you decide you would like to focus on the BT, this is something I program for often and have helped many of achieve.
I would not say it is better suited for heavier.
Heavier makes the pullup harder for some but the press easier and the exact opposite for those who are lighter. IMO it is finding the exactly balance of muscle/strength vs BF.
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