Kettlebell Snatch critique
- Thread starter rickyw
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
@rickyw
Looks basically good, but I do have a few observations/suggestions:
--On the up swing, try keeping your arm pinned down a little longer as you extend your hips and knees.
Especially with a heavy weight, the tendency is to want to get that arm moving up, but you will get better power by keeping the arm down longer. I use the cues "arm down!" or "stay down!" during the forward hip drive to remind myself to keep the arm connected. It seems paradoxical since you are thinking "down" during a phase when the kettlebell is coming up, but I find it very helpful.
--Keep the bell in closer to your body, especially on the up swing. Your are swinging the bell way out in front like a swing and then trying to reel it in after it is well above waist level. This means you are swinging the bell back into the lockout instead of snatching it up TO the fixation point. On many of your reps this causes you to lean into the lockout with your head thrust forward instead of catching the bell standing tall, vertical and planked up.
The first point above about keeping your arm down longer will help with bell path as well as power transfer. As you extend your hips and knees, keep your elbow in as the bell starts to float up so the bell path is closer to your body from the star and you don't have to reel it in at the top.
Another visualization I use is to imagine the bell fixated overhead (or actually hold it there) and imagine a line straight down vertically to the floor. Then, during the snatch imagine snatching "on the line." This won't be the actual bell path, but I find it's a useful cue to keep the bell from swinging out in front.
--You keep your drop much closer to your body than your up swing, closer to dropping "on the line." To do this, you have to lean/sit back a little on the drop to make space for the bell. This is good! You don't want to be casting the bell out in front of you on the drop, and if you try to drop the bell vertically without making space for it, you won't be able to get a nice smooth arc backwards into the hinge.
You might want to think about more actively counterbalancing the bell and "taking the slack out" of your arm on the drop. It seems like you are letting the bell free fall with you arm a little slack and then letting the full force of the drop hit you at the bottom. By counterbalancing the drop, you absorb some of the force on the way down so you get less of an abrupt yank at the bottom. Imagine a letter "V." One upright of the V is path of the bell. The other is your body. You want to keep the center of mass of the system on a vertical that splits the V. Again, this is not necessarily an exact literal description, but more of a conceptual visualization.
To facilitate counterbalancing, think about keeping your torso more upright a little longer before inititing your hinge. I imagine a strong spring or rubber band pulling my head toward the ceiling and resisting the force of the bell trying to fold me over.
Another visualization I use is "playing tug o'war with the bell," to help me counterbalance the force of the bell.
Finally, I use the cue to "pull up on the bell" as I initiate the hinge and sweep the bell into the back swing. I'm not actually pulling the bell up, but I am exerting upward force to smoothly and fluidly absorb the downward force and redirect it backward.
It looks like you are already doing a lot of this on the drop to some extent, but hopefully some of these cues and visualizations will be helpful as you continue to refine.
I also posted about some of these ideas on Miguel's training log thread, along with a couple of videos from Steve Cotter that might be helpful:
https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/miguels-training-log.6680/page-15#post-97870
Looks basically good, but I do have a few observations/suggestions:
--On the up swing, try keeping your arm pinned down a little longer as you extend your hips and knees.
Especially with a heavy weight, the tendency is to want to get that arm moving up, but you will get better power by keeping the arm down longer. I use the cues "arm down!" or "stay down!" during the forward hip drive to remind myself to keep the arm connected. It seems paradoxical since you are thinking "down" during a phase when the kettlebell is coming up, but I find it very helpful.
--Keep the bell in closer to your body, especially on the up swing. Your are swinging the bell way out in front like a swing and then trying to reel it in after it is well above waist level. This means you are swinging the bell back into the lockout instead of snatching it up TO the fixation point. On many of your reps this causes you to lean into the lockout with your head thrust forward instead of catching the bell standing tall, vertical and planked up.
The first point above about keeping your arm down longer will help with bell path as well as power transfer. As you extend your hips and knees, keep your elbow in as the bell starts to float up so the bell path is closer to your body from the star and you don't have to reel it in at the top.
Another visualization I use is to imagine the bell fixated overhead (or actually hold it there) and imagine a line straight down vertically to the floor. Then, during the snatch imagine snatching "on the line." This won't be the actual bell path, but I find it's a useful cue to keep the bell from swinging out in front.
--You keep your drop much closer to your body than your up swing, closer to dropping "on the line." To do this, you have to lean/sit back a little on the drop to make space for the bell. This is good! You don't want to be casting the bell out in front of you on the drop, and if you try to drop the bell vertically without making space for it, you won't be able to get a nice smooth arc backwards into the hinge.
You might want to think about more actively counterbalancing the bell and "taking the slack out" of your arm on the drop. It seems like you are letting the bell free fall with you arm a little slack and then letting the full force of the drop hit you at the bottom. By counterbalancing the drop, you absorb some of the force on the way down so you get less of an abrupt yank at the bottom. Imagine a letter "V." One upright of the V is path of the bell. The other is your body. You want to keep the center of mass of the system on a vertical that splits the V. Again, this is not necessarily an exact literal description, but more of a conceptual visualization.
To facilitate counterbalancing, think about keeping your torso more upright a little longer before inititing your hinge. I imagine a strong spring or rubber band pulling my head toward the ceiling and resisting the force of the bell trying to fold me over.
Another visualization I use is "playing tug o'war with the bell," to help me counterbalance the force of the bell.
Finally, I use the cue to "pull up on the bell" as I initiate the hinge and sweep the bell into the back swing. I'm not actually pulling the bell up, but I am exerting upward force to smoothly and fluidly absorb the downward force and redirect it backward.
It looks like you are already doing a lot of this on the drop to some extent, but hopefully some of these cues and visualizations will be helpful as you continue to refine.
I also posted about some of these ideas on Miguel's training log thread, along with a couple of videos from Steve Cotter that might be helpful:
https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/miguels-training-log.6680/page-15#post-97870
rickyw
Level 7 Valued Member
This is good, I was looking at this. When I go back down to the 28kg it is easier.
Thank you both!
Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
Best for what?
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Yes, same as swings. As your hips extend, you let out a "tsst" sound (or whatever pressurized sound you make). And on the way down breathe sharply in through your nose.
Keep Lifting
Level 6 Valued Member
@Steve W. gives a great rundown on this lift - double thumbs up for all he said - one thing I would add when thinking about keeping the bell closer to your body on the snatch portion of the lift, and also on the drop, is to use the elbow as the driver on the way up and as an initiator on the drop - think of your high pull - the elbow works in concert with the hips essentially taking over as the hips finish their press forward. The snatch is no different - the high pull brings the bell into place and then the fist punches the bell into the finish. By using the elbow as your focus you will limit the "swing" and instead drag the bell up the body. When you get the bell in the right track close to your body and you feel the float before guiding it up you will know it - you will feel that "ahhh ... that's it - do THAT again". Like any lift the technique comes with practice - your video shows that you have a great start - keep training and this lift will soon slip right into your bag of tricks.
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
To piggyback on @Keep Lifting's comment, I often think about the snatch as "a clean that finishes overhead."
I've heard instructors refer the to the snatch as "a swing that finishes overhead." I interpret this "swing that finishes overhead" idea to mean that the driving force should come from the hips, not the arm (which I agree with), but I think it messes people up more than it helps because it leads to snatching in an overly large swing-like arc.
Instead, I imagine the snatch as more of a clean that finishes overhead. The drive still comes from the hips, but the elbow stays in close. I think of snatching "through the rack," meaning that instead of catching the bell in the rack, you let it continue to float up and catch it overhead. Same thing on the drop -- pull the elbow down like you are dropping the bell into the rack, but let it drop "through the rack" and smoothly into the back swing. On the drop I like to get my upper arm locked down to my body before I initiate the hinge to get better power transfer through the torso to the hips and prevent abrupt yanking on my shoulder.
As with many cues, keep in mind that "a clean that finishes overhead" is more of conceptualization than an exact literal instruction. The goove is not exactly the same as a clean or drop into the rack, it's just a way of thinking about it. For instance, one big difference is the counterbalancing and making space for the drop that I described above.
I've heard instructors refer the to the snatch as "a swing that finishes overhead." I interpret this "swing that finishes overhead" idea to mean that the driving force should come from the hips, not the arm (which I agree with), but I think it messes people up more than it helps because it leads to snatching in an overly large swing-like arc.
Instead, I imagine the snatch as more of a clean that finishes overhead. The drive still comes from the hips, but the elbow stays in close. I think of snatching "through the rack," meaning that instead of catching the bell in the rack, you let it continue to float up and catch it overhead. Same thing on the drop -- pull the elbow down like you are dropping the bell into the rack, but let it drop "through the rack" and smoothly into the back swing. On the drop I like to get my upper arm locked down to my body before I initiate the hinge to get better power transfer through the torso to the hips and prevent abrupt yanking on my shoulder.
As with many cues, keep in mind that "a clean that finishes overhead" is more of conceptualization than an exact literal instruction. The goove is not exactly the same as a clean or drop into the rack, it's just a way of thinking about it. For instance, one big difference is the counterbalancing and making space for the drop that I described above.
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rickyw
Level 7 Valued Member
Al, I find that when I am snatching 32kg I sometimes need a breath at the top. I seem to remember some sort of conversation regarding this in the A+A snatch forum last summer but I can't remember the specifics.
Kettlebelephant
Level 6 Valued Member
->
Al Ciampa
Level 7 Valued Member
If memory serves, some of us were discussing breathing more often for higher rep sets. As Arryn stated, hardstyle is a hard "ki" on the hip extension of the snatch, and a short inhale on the back swing.
I've grown to favor inhaling once in the hinge after the hike at the start of a repeat; then, exhale at the top; then inhale at the beginning of the drop, and repeat until the repeat is over. So, I don't do any breathing during the hip extension. But this is just me; and some of it could be due to my breathing practice... I can't know.
rickyw
Level 7 Valued Member
@Steve Freides , the link does not pull up
I think you have to be logged in to Facebook for it to work. It works for me. And I don't know if you have to be FB friends with Derek Toshner, a member of our leadership, whose link and video it is.
If enough people who want to see it cannot see it, I will ask Derek to post it on YouTube or elsewhere.
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If enough people who want to see it cannot see it, I will ask Derek to post it on YouTube or elsewhere.
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rickyw
Level 7 Valued Member
I don't have a Facebook so I tried it on my wife's computer while she was logged into Facebook with no luck
I'll ask him to post it somewhere else, too.
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Here you go:
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