Kettlebell some S&S hr data with the 32

[ali]

Ladies and Gents, a warning: long post with a lot of stuff….

Here is some hr data which charts the progress through the latter stages of S&S with a 32 bell using a heart rate monitor with the MAF formula as a guide. For me it is 124: 51 years old with a further -5 for meds (hay fever allergy) and a couple of colds last year. Hope it may be of interest and useful to some.

Some background: This started with a running maf test with the intention to combine maf running but the plan was abandoned due to me being stupid (again) and popping my knee out doing stuff I keep thinking I'm young enough to do. Deep knee flexion was painful, so get ups were modified and goblets interrupted. Get ups were swapped for hanging leg raises, some crawling, then peppered in oh farmers walks for a little while, then back to 1/2 get ups with the 32, some lunges with a 16, then 24, before going back to full ones with the 32 again. Prior to the knee issue and hr monitoring my numbers were up with the 32 but it was only recent. Recent blogs by Pavel and Al suggest the maf number +5. My own tweaking and playing, by accident rather than design, arrived at more or less the same thing……I backed off the next session by extending the rest and/or reducing the starting hr for the sets if over 130.

My initial testings revealed that my perceived effort didn't correspond that well with the hr data, consistently going too high, well what I figured was high. I dropped back to do 8 reps, having been on 10 for a while. I appeared to have plateaued and could sense my impatience rising to the challenge. Not wishing to burn out and to be too aggressive with rest periods, I fought off the demon. I was beginning to push myself towards the goal, rather than make easy progress, the sessions were becoming tough, too demanding. This reduction in reps helped me recognise that I was dropping in power…I was pushing the last couple of reps. I had compressed the rests but too quickly, I thought.

This is exclusive S&S. No other training other a few runs at the beginning of it all…..the small data for runs is at the end with a little interesting comparison of before and after…. so from 8 reps, down from an underpowered glycolytic 10 before:

.....numbers now below, couldn't post them properly....

 

[ali]

apologies if trying to read all that. For some reason it has formatted differently. I tried to make it a bit more comprehensible and it wouldn't let me.....I'll try again...

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

My initial testings revealed that my perceived effort didn't correspond that well with the hr data, consistently going too high, well what I figured was high.​

I don't have/use HR monitor but have noticed that breath rate, heart rate, and pulse pressure (how hard it beats i.e. difference between systolic and diastolic), although they are related their interactions are complex that they do not correlate well. That is I can be out of breath and have very moderate hr, or have considerably higher hr w/ fairly relaxed, slow breathing... slow breath rate and heart rate but high pulse pressure... high hr but low pressure, etc.

I do have hypothyroid and take levothyroxine for that so that could be a factor. No idea, just reporting odd data

 

[ali]

and the numbers.....

Date reps time hr

17 July.........8 8 8 8 8......5.50...........122 peaks
18...............8 9 8 9 8.......7.30..........124
19...........10 10 8 8 8........8.30..........125
22. continuous swings 100..24kg.....2.40.....148
25...............8 9 8 9 8........9.30..........125

tweaked the knee
1 Aug.......8 8 8 8 8.......6.30.......124
2 .............8 8 8 8 8.......7.15......124
3..............8 8 9 8 8.......7.00......122
5..............8 9 8 9 8.......7.35......124
6..............9 8 9 8 9.......9.50......130 (1), 127 (4)
7..............8 9 8 9 8.......8.45......128 (1), 125 (4)
9..............8 9 8 9 8.......9.20......130 (2), 125 (4)
11............8 9 8 9 8........8.32......126 (1), 125 (2)
12............8 9 8 9 9........8.02......126 (2)
heavily blistered hands excessive gardening work! no training

18...........9 8 9 9 9......8.07.....125 (1)
19...........9 9 9 9 9......9.08.....130 (1), 126 (3)
21...........9 9 9 9 9....10.10.....127 (1), 125 (3)
22...........9 9 9 9 10... 8.15.....126 (2)
23...........9 9 9 9 9......8.05.... 124


26. 10x10 1 arm 24 with 5 breath count rest 5.40 120
light day experiment with 5 breaths

27.......9 9 10 9 9......9.22.....131 (3), 128 (3)
28.......9 10 9 9 9......8.14.....128 (2), 126 (2)
30.......9 9 9 9 9........8.27.....124


2 Sept....9 10 9 10 9....7.45.....127, 126
3...........9 10 9 10 9....9.43......130, 128(4), 126
6...........9 10 9 10 9....9.06......128(3), 125(2)
7..........10 9 10 9 9.....9.20......128, 127


Decided to stick with all 10s from this point.

Many lifestyle variables affected the times. I've listed events that I thought to be significant and impacted me. You will see a wide variance to my times because of the stuff of life.

hr start, time, hr peak
8.....105....9.58.....125(1)
10...100/5..12.02....127 (4)
12...100.....11.22....127(2), 125 (2)
14..............10.32 hr misreading
16...100......10.03....121
17...100/5.....9.54....121
18...100/5.....9.50....121
20...105........9.29....123
21...105........9.46....128 (1 )
22.shadow swings (24kg) 50...1.30....hr no reading….9 rpe though
23....105.......9.43....125 (1)

*****very stressful 2 days, tending to friend in crisis. no training


26....105.....9.55.....4 127(4)
27....105...10.50.....124

*****blood donation. light mobility only

30........................10.31....hr no reading
1 oct.....105/10......11.01......133(2),128(2)
3...............100......11.14......123
4...............100......11.15......119
5...............100.......11.15.....123


notes: difference in pre blood donation, average 5bpm greater recovery costs and corresponding increase in rest periods. No drop in power though. My previous non hr self would have hammered on chasing better times…..A shift from the norm to a state of stress and downgraded aerobic function from a reduced blood volume impacts my function and performance? Maybe not much in it….10%? Quite a lot if I was a competitive athlete though….and that's a 10% increase in output via glycolysis too, had I not had the hr data. I know that my non hr self would have blasted through it.

7.................9.35.....no data
8........100........10.20.....128

notes: monitor keeps cutting out and is becoming unreliable. Back to 10 get ups with that
lump of a 32……feel the need for a day off after 2 days of full get ups. Slowly been building them back in, disappointing that it hasn't got any lighter!

• 9.10 TEST DAY Swing time 4.55, hr at end approx 152 (pulse reading, hr monitor up the spout)

GOOOOOOALLLLLLL: take that you little lump of iron you. High heart rate, good power production, no struggling. All good. Big psychological barrier overcome. Didn't make the time for the get ups yet though, so technically it is only half a goal.

• 10.10 tgus 5x24 swings hr start no data 10.22

no training. 3 days of intense 14+ hours of home renovation
day off knackered.

hr start, time, hr peak, get ups
15......100....10.18....130(2), 127(4)....2x24, 3x32
****new monitor strap. Varying load for tgu. Not patterned, just feel.


16.......100....11.29....130(3), 126(4)….5x32..should have had another day off. v tired.
18.......100....11.30.....124....3x24, 2x32
19.......100....10.33.....124......5x32
20..100 continuous swings 24kb 2.36 135 at finish...5x32
22.......100(3)..11.13....124.....2x24, 3x32
...........105(2)..............129/130
23.......105.....10.15......130(2), 128(4)...5x32
25.......105......9.42.......128(2), 125 (3)..5x32
26.......105....10.30.......128(2), 125 (3)...5x32
27....light day....24kb 1 5 breaths rest...5.30...128 at end...5x24
30.......105....9.17..........125(1)...3x24,2x32
1.11....105....9.20..........125(1)....5x32

• 4.11 GOAL TEST: Swings 4.52 hr at finish 145. 1 min rest, get ups 32x5 in 9.48, hr 132
• 
  
• 6.11 MAKE SURE IT WASN"T A FLUKE TEST: swings 4.50, hr 146. 1 min rest, get ups 32x5 in 9.40, hr 130 (the only time my hr was up for the get ups)

Simple. Thank you Pavel and to all at Strongfirst, notably Al C and Steve F, for the omnipresent advice and support offered through the forum. At 51 I'm no longer a boy!

Hope the info may help others using heart rate monitoring. No idea if that is typically normal, abnormal, odd or otherwise. The whole process has been one big educational package.

ps….for Al Ciampa esp……

As mentioned earlier, the running aspect of my maf input was short lived. However I did do some runs and a maf test, so an ideal situation arose where I could re test my maf test running route for any change due to S&S only:


21.6.15 maf test……..4 laps of small loch/lake 3 sets hr 114-124…av 123.
total time: 32.17
splits

1. 8.50
2. 9.40
3.13.47

28.6 maf run time within hr of 114-124 25 min (walk recover if over 124)
16.7.....................................................30 min
24.7.....................................................33 min

10.11.15 maf test hr 114-124….av 123

total time: 30.56,
splits

1. 9.15
2. 10.05
3. 11. 26

A 4.2% improvement in maf test. With the exception of 3 earlier runs above, since 25 July only S&S with the 32. Good, bad, indifferent? Unexpected or to be expected?

 

[ali]

Arrgh, still looks like my dogs dinner, sorry...and now hopefully readable

 

[krg]

Ali - great work.

Some observations -

1) (for you) managing to stay aerobic while doing 10 swings EMOM seems to have been a fair guide as to when you could hit the goal. Be interesting to know if others feel that way or is it just a sign of great aerobic conditioning. For what it's worth I still probably cant quite do a full set of 100 in 10 minutes if I'm aerobic throughout.

2) I think the second MAF test shows an increase in endurance. Achieved just using a 32 kg lump of iron - amazing really.

3) love the way that the only time off training was due to blistered hands from gardening.

cheers

 

[Anna C]

Alistair, Nice reporting. I might have to look back at that when my eyes can sort it out

Here is some HR data with the 32kg from today, 5 swings per set; Garmin Connect

I'm glad you mentioned the MAF test. I think I'll do one tomorrow. I've been doing mine on a stationary bike.

 

[ali]

Anna and krg, don't know if you have done a maf test before but the numbers I referenced, although in a good direction obviously, don't show the qualitative side of things.

Maf runs and tests are painfully slow at first. I didn't do enough of them to really feel a difference, as S&S was the training, so I can only refer to my early few runs to compare with my recent post S&S maf run/test. The last run was also painfully slow but there was a very clear difference......power reserve. It was harder to hold back. Almost like having your accelerator pedal tweaked in the garage, just a tap produces more power. And, as I hadn't done any running, it was kind of surprising!! I've got myself a new engine.

I know I could have reached the goal sooner, probably not far off from where I started using hr to guide the process as I was up with the numbers on the get ups and blasting out the swings in 7/8 minutes with an anaerobically high heart rate and had been there a while. Had I waged war on it I could have made the goal BUT that wouldn't have been the same as achieving it the way I did. At least, I can only guess/presume that. The difference: almost 5 months. That was slowed somewhat due to the knee injury. All in all a 4% improvement in run times by not running is not to be sniffed at. I doubt seeking a 4% improvement in run time by running would necessarily carry over to being able to swing a 32 in under 5 minutes and do 10 get ups. And as Al has noted in some of his writings a combo of S&S and running and/or aerobic work of some kind would go together well, each bouncing off each other. That was my intention but it never worked out that way. In the end, it shows what we already know: S&S delivers as promised.