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Old Forum Spinal tilt during TGU

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sashafklein

sashafklein

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I just started up on <b>Simple and Sinister</b> without a coach. I think I've been doing things pretty well, and have been video taping most of the exercises to review my form.

The tilt of my upper body during the lunge and standing portion of the TGU has been concerning me, though. As you can see in the video below, without a mirror to look at, I lunge and stand with an imbalanced (and even a little curved) spine.

This video is taken of me doing a TGU with a weight at my edge. I usually do a bit lighter, but because the curve/tilt is less pronounced with lighter weight, I went heavier for the video:

The Video Link (is there a way to embed? The Google iFrame wasn't working)

After watching some of these videos, I've been able to slightly correct these tilts by consciously, say, tilting my upper body towards the bell, and my hips a bit away. But I can't really intuitively tell when I'm standing straight, so these adjustments are all corrections from what I've seen in the videos, and they're never quite perfect. I do think the curve/tilt has been getting better, and the above video represents an improvement over (deleted videos of) TGUs I performed a couple days ago.

The questions are:



How important is it to have a completely vertical spine during the lunge and standing portions of the TGU? It would seem obviously important to me, but I've seen/heard little about this in SaS or online videos.

Is this a common issue? If so, is my spinal alignment particularly bad? When should I, or should I not, be concerned?

Are there any cues/tips you can think of to help address this? I'm thinking mirror, but I also feel I should be able to stand straight under a bell with my eyes closed.

Any other notes on my form? I'm also trying to focus on shoulder packing and keeping my wrist straight, neither of which feel particularly intuitive to me.



Thanks,

Sasha
 
Weird. Isn't this forum supposed to take HTML? The li's and video are gone. At any rate, until I figure out how to reformat it, here's the video link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxY4tW5znE8
 
This is a tough camera angle to judge. My first piece of advice would be to slow down. Pause, exhale and inhale at each step.

You’re skipping a step. It’s hard for me to describe in text, but after you post on your hand, place your leg so that it forms a straight line with your hand. Then use your hips to get upright. Then “windshield wiper” from your knee so that you’re in the lunge position.

As far as your concerns about spinal alignment, make sure your shoulders are packed. It's perfectly normal to have difficulty keeping the arm vertical and wrist neutral -- it requires a lot of practice.
 
*note* This is just my observation

 

TO my eyes I think lack of Hip/Glute drive and ab bracing may be causing the sag in your spine. From the start really drive that foot into the ground to initiate the bell up. Stay tight. GO down a KB and really practice that. I recommend the video DEEPENING YOUR GET UP SKILLS by Dave Whitley Master SFG.  You can get the digital or DVD from  http://www.davedraper.com/fitness_products/product/DDWKB.html
 
Sasha-

do you have to sit a lot each day, such as for work? Commute? have you had an FMS screen before?

yes, the lack of a neutrAl spine is a problem, in each step. in addition it looks like your shoulders never  pack properly. When you do your TGU's do you feel a lot of tension on the outside/front of the shoulders?
 
I wouldn't judge ones form when maxing. It is pretty obvious that you don't own the movement with this bell. Go lighter and don't rush through - add pauses between each step. Maybe try to upload another video with the lighter bell.
 
It is the lack of the "windshield wiper" move forcing you into lateral flexion of the spine

You can see this in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vWKMuDH528

Using the low sweep (no high bridge) your hand and shin should end up in line so don't try to sweep back the "lunge" position and on the way down be sure you windshield wiper to hinge the hips to reach the ground instead of hinging at the spine
 
Hi Sasha,

 

First - get off of that throw rug - I can see it moving around beneath you.  get your feet on that wood floor and use them.  in the video when you get into your lunge and begin to stand up, your knees buckle in - this fault begins with weak feet.  focus on your knees and feet during the warm up when doing goblet squats and get that feeling of screwing your feet into the ground, pressing your knees out when squatting up, using your glutes to press you into position, bracing at the top  and creating a rock solid foundation - then as Jozef said work with a lighter bell and really really get strong in every position of this movement - it is well worth the time spent to really get to know this movement.  but first - get off of that rug.
 
sorry - it seems I didn't really address your direct questions in my rant about the rug - my apologies.  as far as the spinal alignment, what Brett said.  I would stay away from a mirror, more harm than good, but keep your eyes open and feel the movement at every stage.  a couple of nit picky things on form, as you come down into the lunge from the standing position the heel of your front leg comes up off of the floor, a little bit on the left side, pretty dramatically when the right foot is forward.  keep that foot flat and strong on the floor, don't let the heel rise, this again speaks to foundation.  As Phil said, I would slow everything down, especially your last move down to the floor where it appears you are just dropping to your back, you want to be under control at every stage of the movement from the moment you touch the bell until it is parked safely.  using a lighter bell pause at every position and go through a mental checklist starting with your hips and shoulders and making sure everything is in proper alignment and if not then make the adjustment you need before moving to the next position.  some areas should remain tense; glutes, abs, lats, keep that arm ramrod straight, some should be loose; face, neck, breath.  at the top of the movement really take the time to lean into your armpit and use your lats to pull that shoulder down and into the packed position.  if you take your time to go through these steps, each time you do the movement, you will  feel your body make the necessary adjustments to put yourself in the most stable position at each point of the movement.  keep it up.
 
Thanks, everyone!

(And sorry for the weird sound/music in the video. Just noticed it. I was listening to some music, and Youtube muted some of it for copyright reasons, but not the rest, resulting in a weirdly half-muted video. I figured it was all muted, and wasn't trying to triumphantly time the Bruce-Springsteen intro or anything.)

At any rate, really appreciate all the feedback.

I'll definitely move that rug out of the way next time. And I've stepped down the weight from 50 to 36lb (I was pushing it to draw out a major spinal curve for the video), and started practicing with multi-second pauses at each step (and making sure I include that straight-leg step). I've also been focusing more on ab bracing and packing my shoulder, though from the videos, whenever I think about packing my shoulder, my arm somehow becomes less straight (and I usually tilt a little more).

I'll try to upload a lighter-bell video (without the Springsteen) tomorrow.

So I think I'm still doing a lot wrong, so, particularly if a mirror is a bad idea, I think I'm going to reach out to a local SFG coach. Sounds a lot smarter than messing up my shoulders and back.

I'll probably throw up another video tomorrow, but just wanted to thank you all before then,

Sasha
 
Don't overthink the shoulder packing. Locking the elbow causes the shoulder to pack for some reason.
 
If getting in-person instruction from an SFG is an option, it’s for sure better than any amount of form advice we can give you on here. Go for it.
 
I dropped the weight by ~15lb and tried to slow things down and pause a bit at each step. Still moving a little fast, I think, and I’m particularly s***ty at the roll-down at the end. But working on it.
I’m in touch with an SFG coach and will hopefully get some in-person instruction soonish, but if you all have any feedback about my TGU with this lighter weight, let me know:
YouTube has no mute-your-video option I could find, so sorry, again, for the random music
Thanks again, everyone!
Sasha
 
Hi Sasha, i think that its looking a lot better - one way to slow it down more, if you wish, is to pause for a breath or 2 at each joint, but i don't think your pace is too fast, it looks good.  At the end instead of dropping to your elbow and laying back you should extend the lead arm (the one without the bell) sliding it along the floor as it extends up and back over your head as you slowly come down to the finish position.  that will provide some support and make that last move to the floor more stable.

 

watch the perfect TGU video below and see how the model slide that arm along the floor to finish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vWKMuDH528
 
The instructed TGU standard does not include a sliding arm, not saying there's not a time and a place for it, however to have a good getup one must be able to pack each shoulder throughout, otherwise you're compensating (I'm not saying Brett is doing the TGU wrong, referring to the teaching standards).

Have you been shown how to shoulder pack from someone in-person? Doing so properly on both the working and non-working arm will clean up some other issues going on. The leg position on the sweep, both directions needs to be addressed too. In-person instruction will help a lot.

Theres also too much of a "crunch" going on in the second transition to the elbow off the floor. Drive the heel of the foot on the working side hard into the ground, push the earth away from you. Drive the heel of the non-working side hard against an imaginary wall. After the hips begin to turn (first motion off the ground) the non-working side elbow drives hard in the ground while maintaining a shoulder pack. This should bring the torso up in a connected manner, keeping the spine straight.

The shoulder packing & elbow bending issues most likely indicate a movement issue, hence the question about getting screened to know where it's coming from.
 
i concur that sliding the arm is not part of the teaching standard, but its easy to maintain a packed shoulder in the sliding arm and it does provide a smoother more graceful transition to the floor which is helpful when stepping up in weight.
 
Zach, I like this for the roll-up:  Drive the heel of the foot on the working side hard into the ground, push the earth away from you.  That is a helpful tip!

Agree on the sliding arm... we were taught in the one-day course that it's sort of a "cheat"... you don't get the full benefit of the abs working the roll-down when the arm is used for support.  But I agree with Marchese in that the elbow is a little bit too close in on that last video - if you set it out a little further and give yourself a bit more room to roll down, then you're not blocked by your own arm in the roll-down, if that makes sense.

Sasha, looks like you are doing great, keep up the good work.
 
Yes, in the future one can practice that by choice to manage a heavier weight. At this moment in time though it would only serve as a means of not addressing one of the main problems in his TGU. maintaining the shoulder pack with the elbow stationary will do more to provide the learning experience needed to employ a packed shoulder throughout, also may help to highlight what the issue(s) is/are that is/ are preventing a packed shoulder throughout while creating the flexed spine position that was the original problem being discussed.
 
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