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Other/Mixed Splitting running volume within a week. How would you do it?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Bauer

Bauer

Level 8 Valued Member
I am currently running about 4 hours per month, with 1-3 sessions per week (Zone 1 and 2 only). I want to increase this training load to about 6 hours per month before I might try a more structured approach, for example with the Easy Interval Method from Klaas Lok.

What do you think is the best way to split this overall load within a week?
  • 3x 30 minutes
  • 2x 45 minutes
  • 1x60 minutes + 1x 30 minutes
  • 1x90 minutes
For context: I am also cycling and walking throught the week. My main dish is KB training 3x per week: KBSF LCCJ + Iron Cardio.
I mainly train endurance in order to build more mitochondria (for better health and better recovery), as per TFTUA.

The recovery of my feet is my bottneck. A couple of years ago I could not tolerate running - but I have spent the last two years slooooowly increasing my training load. I could not find the reference, but I remember a study finding that splitting training volume into more sessions is actually preferable for tendon strength.

How would you approach it and why? I wonder if the different approaches would lead to different outcomes.
 
Either of the first two would be preferable. There's really not much difference between those two options. It's easier for the tissues to recover from shorter sessions more frequently than those long sessions. Last chance of chronic injury.
 
Have you had your gait assessed?
I think I'd try to run almost every day for 10 to 15 minutes to practice.
Get confidence in your feet.
A barefoot run may also be more feasible if the length is shorter.
 
Bauer said:
The recovery of my feet is my bottneck.
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What are the issues here?
There may be some non-running methods to help. (Depending upon the issue)

If you are married to no more than 3 sessions per week I would offer another option: 2 x 30 and 1 x 45
I know it’s a bit more volume but if it’s at Z1/Z2 it should be doable, or at least something that you could relatively easily progress to. I am a big proponent of the old school one long(er) run per week.
 
Bauer said:
I am currently running about 4 hours per month, with 1-3 sessions per week (Zone 1 and 2 only). I want to increase this training load to about 6 hours per month before I might try a more structured approach, for example with the Easy Interval Method from Klaas Lok.

What do you think is the best way to split this overall load within a week?
  • 3x 30 minutes
  • 2x 45 minutes
  • 1x60 minutes + 1x 30 minutes
  • 1x90 minutes
For context: I am also cycling and walking throught the week. My main dish is KB training 3x per week: KBSF LCCJ + Iron Cardio.
I mainly train endurance in order to build more mitochondria (for better health and better recovery), as per TFTUA.

The recovery of my feet is my bottneck. A couple of years ago I could not tolerate running - but I have spent the last two years slooooowly increasing my training load. I could not find the reference, but I remember a study finding that splitting training volume into more sessions is actually preferable for tendon strength.

How would you approach it and why? I wonder if the different approaches would lead to different outcomes.
Click to expand...
I've used this with great success:
  • One hard-ish 30' session (relaxed Z3 intervals).

  • One moderately comfortable 60' session (Z2).

  • One really, really, really easy 90' session (Z1-Z2).
Since you are already running one hour a week, you could probably start at 10/20/30 (or even 5/10/15) and see how it feels.

Or, even better, follow @mprevost's advice because he made a quite successful career out of this.
 
Thanks everyone!
Pete L said:
Have you had your gait assessed?
I think I'd try to run almost every day for 10 to 15 minutes to practice.
Get confidence in your feet.
A barefoot run may also be more feasible if the length is shorter.
Click to expand...

offwidth said:
What are the issues here?
There may be some non-running methods to help. (Depending upon the issue)
Click to expand...
I have had some nagging pain in the past (actualy worsened by barefoot running). An x-ray showed that one of my bones is a bit longer than usual and therefore my second metastarsal gets to carry more load than usual. Plus I had very weak feet to begin with. Clavusses and Morton's foot did not help either, I guess.

Getting to Timeless Simple strengthened my feet enough to attempt running again. I started to only add as much training as my feet could tolerate, while working on my form. I started with 6x1 minute of barefoot running indoors and slowly worked up to accumulating 30 minutes (inspired by Al Ciampa and the Galloway run/walk method).

I have read Chi Running in the past, and reading "The Lost Art of Running" by Shane Benzie was a true eye-opener. This has worked like a charm so far. Easy Interval Method is also really helpful. Harald Motz' recommendation of "niko niko" slow jogging inspired me, too.

From your answers I think the safe bet is to default splitting it into several sessions. An occasional longer run would be beneficial, too.

(By the way, last week I did a Z2 session with a friend that runs marathons -- and is actually quite fast -- and he was surprised by my speed and ease, so I guess my approach seems to be working just fine for now.)
 
psmith said:
It's your training, but consider the possibility that this is more trouble than it's worth.
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Yeah, I know, learned it the hard way back in 2009 or so after reading Born to Run. These days I do my running in Altra Escalante Racers (pretty minimalist, but still far more comfortable than barefoot). I only use barefoot running for indoor practice.
 
Lots of folks around here (and the blogosphere in general) seem to be enamored with barefoot running, and or minimalist footwear.
I guess the poison is in the dose, but I am not one of these people. Especially if one has bio mechanical weaknesses.

Yeah… I may be old school, but give me a solid shoe with good support, motion control and cushioning any day of the week.
 
How you you train in running, and how much, depends on your goals. From reading your first post I'm assuming you want to build up a decent base with good mitochondrial adaptations, using a volume of 90 minutes per week. I'd do it this way, based on the theory of 80/20 running... 80% of your running should be in Z1-2 and 20% should be hard:

  • 1 long run: 45 min. Z1 to low Z2.
  • 1 moderate: 25 min. moderate to high Z2.
  • 1 interval: 20 min. Z4
    • 4x 4min. with 1-2 min. walking rest is a good starting point and scientifically proven.
I believe that regular running in Z3 for general adaptation and base building is counterproductive. It wears you down as much as it gives back. If you're training for a half-marathon or longer it's a bit different, especially as you progress in your training towards a race. But it doesn't sound like you're going there.

When you're ready to add more time/volume, add it first in your long run or slap on a day with a very easy and short Z1 run.
 
LarryB said:
Barefoot:
My general approach has been to live in minimalist shoes and run in more supportive ones
Click to expand...
This mimics my own approach: living on minimalist shoes and running on Altra’s zero drop, wiiiiiiide toebox and quite cushioned shoes.

That being said, running once in a while through a forest wearing 1-2mm soles is quite the experience (you actually feel the pine needles below your feet).
 
I would recommend options 1 or 2 if you were stuck to one of the options presented.

That said, how much are you cycling? Ie. how many days per week, what do the sessions look like?
 
Bauer said:
The recovery of my feet is my bottneck. A couple of years ago I could not tolerate running - but I have spent the last two years slooooowly increasing my training load.
Click to expand...

One must also consider the combination not only of you and your shoes but the surface on which you're running. A minimalist shoe on grass or dirt is going to be different than you and that same shoe running on concrete sidewalks. My understanding is that asphalt is a little better than concrete in terms of it being a surface, but the fact that it's often slanted isn't great.

Consider running off-road if you can. If trail access is an issue, a local park or sports field that's grass will do, just run around the edge of it. A golf course, too.

Consider also that zero-drop shoes come in a variety of configurations. E.g., I own three different models from xeroshoes.com. They differ from each other by .5 mm in sole thickness but the model with the thinnest sole is also the lightest and least supportive shoe. I've found the lightest model just too little shoe for me because, at least in part, most of my walking is on concrete sidewalks in the town I live in. The middle model suits me for everyday use, and the heaviest model is the one I'd run in (if I did more than a very little bit of running these days, which I don't do).

FWIW, before zero-drop shoes became a thing, I used to run in what they call racing flats - lighter shoes, less heel raise, less cushioning.

Indoor soccer shoes are another you might consider - typically very little heel raise but more cushioning than minimalist footwear.

Hope this is helpful to you.

-S-
 
JPCross said:
I would recommend options 1 or 2 if you were stuck to one of the options presented.

That said, how much are you cycling? Ie. how many days per week, what do the sessions look like?
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Thanks.

No real sessions. Just daily commute to work and running errands (we don't own a car). Sometimes pulling a Thule carrier with our kid and/or lots of groceries. Usually about 2 to 5 hours per week, I would think.
 
Given the idea that you have to run for 15 min just to get your body warmed up, you'll increase your effective training time doing 2x45min instead of 3x30min. In the end (someone already suggested) it'd be better to run straight after some other training session.

I believe that the "only" way to prep your feet is to run more, longer. Of course there are exceptions that require strengthening or even stretching of.. something. Some of the long run metabolic effects you'll get from cycling I believe.

Personally I've tried to combine running and powerlifting type training. I used to do lots of short recovery run type training which didn't give me much. Now I'll try to work out a system with medium length runs. I finally realized this summer that cycling is a much better option alongside lifting. My plan is to do some long duration training by cycling.
 
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I listened to a Peter Attia podcast yesterday and he recommended 45 minutes as a minimum session length for intermediate experience zone 2 training.
 
offwidth said:
I may be old school, but give me a solid shoe with good support, motion control and cushioning any day of the week.
Click to expand...
LOL! barefoot running/walking is the oldest school :) a solid running shoe with support is a human invention of the past 50or60 years. But yah. barefoot or minimalist running i snot for everyone and takes a very long time to acclimatize. I see @Bauer is already in minimalist shoes...I use running sandals (t-rockets)

Bauer said:
From your answers I think the safe bet is to default splitting it into several sessions. An occasional longer run would be beneficial, too.
Click to expand...
yes, I wholly agree. if you are already comfortable with 30min run, then push those sessions to 45min (add 5min every 2nd week), once you're happy with the 2or3 weekly 45 min sessions then start to push 1 run to a 90min session (+10minutes every session), maybe attempt 2or3 of these long ones per month, 1 weekly is ideal. Also consider taking a light KB for a 30min fast walk/slow-run for 1/week. Again, start low and add 5min every week.

my typical running = 1 KB walk/jog, 1 hard tempo/interval run for 30-45min, 1 long slow run 90min(every sunday)

Some have suggested regular 15min runs. it takes me almost 15 min to get ready for a run. While I believe in the idea and have tried it, it is not really practical.
 
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