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Kettlebell Straight Leg In The Getup

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avroomer

avroomer

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[Thread created from portions of @avroomer's A + A log. -S-]

And my random thought of the day...

Having the straight leg come off the ground in a TGU when raising to the elbow is equivalent to the snatch arm side heel coming off the ground during the snatch. Hmmm.... thoughts? I'm thinking energy leakage, proper tensioning, ... engagement?
 
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avroomer said:
Having the straight leg come off the ground in a TGU when raising to the elbow is equivalent to the snatch arm side heel coming off the ground during the snatch.
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I believe that the off side leg is "supposed to" lift from the ground during the get up, especially a heavy one.
 
Yes, but the straight leg needn't come up with a moderate weight so I would always discourage that - just a matter of coordinating where the tension is and isn't, IMHO.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Yes, but the straight leg needn't come up with a moderate weight so I would always discourage that - just a matter of coordinating where the tension is and isn't, IMHO.

-S-
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And this is where it gets philosophical... needn't; shouldn't... or should? If the OS and other movement theories are correct, then the brain "should" compel the straight leg to raise up.
 
Al, maybe we're talking past each other, but a lot of things that "should" happen do happen if we don't try to do otherwise, e.g., we should round our backs when we go into a deep squat. But we are able to learn to do otherwise.

-S-
 
I think we are, Steve... my meaning is that if you believe in the contralateral movement pattern as a neurological motor pattern, then hip extension and opposite side shoulder hyper extension, associate with the opposite on the other limbs. In the get up, the straight "should" want to elevate due to opposing hip flexion. And unlike your example, its not unsafe under load.

Can we learn to do otherwise? Of course: we can walk on crutches too. I'm not arguing to change anything about the get up; this is philosophical... I don't think that the get up isn't wired into the brain like the contralateral pattern.
 
Al,
The straight leg should stay down (until the load and COG dictates otherwise)
in the roll to the elbow it should be the "core" providing a stable center and transfer of energy during the drive through the up heel and pulling to the down elbow
if the leg pops up first then the hip flexor (may) have engaged first (pulling on the spine etc... and not the patterning we want)

Most of what we do is a constant interplay between ipsi and contra and sometime "exercise" rules don't necessarily follow "developmental" rules IMO
 
@Brett Jones so, the leg can lift but only to physically counterbalance a heavy load, and should not be a result of premature muscle contractions of the hip flexors?

Philosophically, I can't disconnect our gait pattern from this phenomenon in the roll to elbow, but I take your point about the "rules".
 
Oh dear. Didn't mean to start anything there.... but now I'm wondering about these patterns... Mind you I have ZERO background in the medical/scientific aspects of movement so the following is pure observation from a student/practitioner POV. Could one argue that keeping the "off" leg straight and on the ground provides a similar pattern to how most hand-combat systems teach the punch? Where you plant the opposite leg/drive down and back as the fist thrusts forward? (Other than the wing chun punch). I don't know. I'm still teasing this one out in my head...
 
Al,
Essentially yes and we are flexing at the hip coming into the seated position but not raising the leg (early hip flexors).

Leg coming up on a heavy get-up is just COM and weight distribution - once you go heavy enough its likely going to happen
 
Steve Freides said:
More later from me when I'm not on an airplane.
Click to expand...

Well, nothing more from me except questions:

Brett and Al, is it a reasonable comparison to say keeping the straight leg down in the getup is like keeping the non-bearing leg reaching to the back in the contralateral one-legged deadlift? There seems to be something of "work one half of the X but not the other" in both.

I'm pretty sure Al is offline for a few days, btw.

-S-
 
Interesting Observations/Questions:
avroomer said:
[Thread created from portions of @avroomer's A + A log. -S-]
Having the straight leg come off the ground in a TGU when raising to the elbow is equivalent to the snatch arm side heel coming off the ground during the snatch. Hmmm.... thoughts? I'm thinking energy leakage, proper tensioning, ... engagement?
Click to expand...

I think something different is occurring here because during the kettlebell snatch it is the heel on the same side as the kettlebell that typically raises up, not the opposite heel as is seen in the getup.

I've always considered the straight leg popping-up during the getup as the equivalent of a "kipping getup" since it is typically accompanied by an explosive transition from the supine position to the elbow position. I've always considered this urge to "kip" in the first and last stage getup an indication of either not wedging properly or trying to compensate for a lack of core strength. I've found that wedging and bracing properly remedies the "kip".


avroomer said:
Could one argue that keeping the "off" leg straight and on the ground provides a similar pattern to how most hand-combat systems teach the punch? Where you plant the opposite leg/drive down and back as the fist thrusts forward?
Click to expand...

For some time now I've considered the roll to elbow the very closely related to the "super-man punch" in MMA or reverse-punch in martial arts for the reason you just mentioned.
 
I think a lot will depend on how much the person weighs and how heavy the bell is. A 200+ lb person will be much more able to keep his leg down with a 32 than someone that weighs 150 lbs.
 
My suggestion - take the roll to elbow part and do sets of 3-5 reps with a lighter weight. And then after some time try heavier. And after few days/weeks heavier. Many people have this issue when the bell is relatively heavy compared to their bodyweight (I know I did), but patient re-patterning and practice guarantees huge improvement. I had the same issues from 32 kg up (BW 68 kg/150 lb), but using the method above I can do it without the leg pop with 40 kg now. 44 kg - more difficult, but it means that I just have to spend more time with 36/40.
 
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