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Other/Mixed Strength Shortcuts/microsessions vs. cardio training.

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Pasibrzuch

Pasibrzuch

Level 6 Valued Member
Disclaimer: whenever I use the word "cardio" in this post I mean Aerobic Capacity development ("stretching the heart"). I don't mean, alactic or glycolitic power/capacity training.

The format of my work changes periodically and instead of having to do one longer session a day and switching modalities day to day, I do 2-4 10-15minute sessions a day, as per Strength Shortcuts by @Geoff Neupert . I usually do two obligatory sessions there, which is a session of ballistics and a session of grinds. The two remaining sessions are plyometrics/carries and unilateral work/isometrics.

It's a great system for training once strength and power, maybe power endurance, but I don't think it works well for aerobic capacity, since one needs 30+ minutes in Zone 2 to trigger the desired adaptations.

The question: how would one implement cardio work into the Strength Shortcuts/Microsessions system? So far, the only idea that comes to my mind is skipping 1-2 days from Strength Shortcuts, and just doing some cardio work for 30+ minutes on this day. Maybe do one additional 10 minutes session of whatever that day if one feels fresh enough. What do you think?
 
Pasibrzuch said:
Disclaimer: whenever I use the word "cardio" in this post I mean Aerobic Capacity development ("stretching the heart"). I don't mean, alactic or glycolitic power/capacity training.

The format of my work changes periodically and instead of having to do one longer session a day and switching modalities day to day, I do 2-4 10-15minute sessions a day, as per Strength Shortcuts by @Geoff Neupert . I usually do two obligatory sessions there, which is a session of ballistics and a session of grinds. The two remaining sessions are plyometrics/carries and unilateral work/isometrics.

It's a great system for training once strength and power, maybe power endurance, but I don't think it works well for aerobic capacity, since one needs 30+ minutes in Zone 2 to trigger the desired adaptations.

The question: how would one implement cardio work into the Strength Shortcuts/Microsessions system? So far, the only idea that comes to my mind is skipping 1-2 days from Strength Shortcuts, and just doing some cardio work for 30+ minutes on this day. Maybe do one additional 10 minutes session of whatever that day if one feels fresh enough. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Yeah, sure, give it a go, do what you can do. A LOT of benefits accrue in the first 30 min of aerobic cardio, but any is better than none.
 
Pasibrzuch said:
The question: how would one implement cardio work into the Strength Shortcuts/Microsessions system? So far, the only idea that comes to my mind is skipping 1-2 days from Strength Shortcuts, and just doing some cardio work for 30+ minutes on this day. Maybe do one additional 10 minutes session of whatever that day if one feels fresh enough. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Like you, it seems, I often have to split up my training into smaller blocks throughout the day.

What I do is basically greasing the groove, plus a lunchtime session involving two main lifts and about 30 minutes on my bike trainer. My school schedule and wokload don't always allow this though, so my training schedule has been less of a schedule and more of "getting in what I can, when I can."

To answer your question, I think it depends on how much total time you have each day. I think your idea to make certain days dedicated cardio days is the most straightforward approach. You could also combine the strength and the cardio into one session, depending on your access to weight training implements. That is, do your LISS for about 30 minutes, maybe a touch more, and periodically do some resistance training throughout it. I do this with my bike trainer sometimes. I'll get on the bike, and every 5-10 minutes, get off and do a short circuit of push, pull, and something else.
 
Pasibrzuch said:
The question: how would one implement cardio work into the Strength Shortcuts/Microsessions system?
Click to expand...
I am unfamiliar with the system you mention, but going a bit harder for a shorter period of time, while the adaptations may be different, isn't necessarily "bad cardio" altogether, either.

John K said:
A LOT of benefits accrue in the first 30 min of aerobic cardio, but any is better than none.
Click to expand...
This, too.

Pasibrzuch said:
a session of ballistics
Click to expand...
Maybe you just push this one a little harder than if you intended to do it for longer. Maybe even you vary this from day to day, including a Double Espresso type of session sometimes.

-S-
 
Well, I answer from another "cardio" that has become fashion to talk about: mitochondria:
Longer cardio-sessions = more mitochondria.
More intense cardio sessions = better mitochondria (improved mitochondrial function)

For results in i.e. marathon more mitochondria is better than mitochondrial function. As a general rule (although there are exceptions) more total km per week = better running times.

Both are better than nothing. One is better in a narrow scope. Combination seams to be best (although in my example, don't sacrifice your total km per week by doing more intervals)

What do you want to improve? Left ventricle size? Stroke size? Ejection fraction? Oxygen uptake?

If Just feeling better is the question then the answer to your post is yes.
If the question is will this work the answer is yes.
If the question is is this optimal for getting an olympic medal in running the answer is no.
 
Pasibrzuch said:
Disclaimer: whenever I use the word "cardio" in this post I mean Aerobic Capacity development ("stretching the heart"). I don't mean, alactic or glycolitic power/capacity training.

The format of my work changes periodically and instead of having to do one longer session a day and switching modalities day to day, I do 2-4 10-15minute sessions a day, as per Strength Shortcuts by @Geoff Neupert . I usually do two obligatory sessions there, which is a session of ballistics and a session of grinds. The two remaining sessions are plyometrics/carries and unilateral work/isometrics.

It's a great system for training once strength and power, maybe power endurance, but I don't think it works well for aerobic capacity, since one needs 30+ minutes in Zone 2 to trigger the desired adaptations.

The question: how would one implement cardio work into the Strength Shortcuts/Microsessions system? So far, the only idea that comes to my mind is skipping 1-2 days from Strength Shortcuts, and just doing some cardio work for 30+ minutes on this day. Maybe do one additional 10 minutes session of whatever that day if one feels fresh enough. What do you think?
Click to expand...
I have had the same question some time ago and found a few interesting research items on the differences between continuous vs. accumulated exercise (e.g, 1x30' vs. 3x10' walking or jogging). Mostly, both conditions seemed to deliver various and comparable benefits. Most of the time, the continuous condition seemed to deliver slightly more benefits. However, I have not found anything regarding stroke volume.

E.g., this study from De Busk et al. (1990) compared jogging for 1x30' vs. 3x10', and the results were pretty similar: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000291499091005Q?via=ihub
Here is another overview (Murphy et al. 2012).

--
This quote sums up the most relevant take-away from various studies:
"In other words, the total weekly exercise time appeared to matter more than the duration of the single bouts." (Kim et al, 2020, p. 103)

Kim, H., Reece, J., & Kang, M. (2020). Effects of accumulated short bouts of exercise on weight and obesity indices in adults: a meta-analysis. American Journal of Health Promotion, 34(1), 96-104.

In other words: Don't be afraid to split it up, if that works for you. I remember reading some training plans by pro runners including short 15 minute morning runs 6x per week, to add another 90 minutes to the total volume.
 
Bauer said:
I have had the same question some time ago and found a few interesting research items on the differences between continuous vs. accumulated exercise (e.g, 1x30' vs. 3x10' walking or jogging). Mostly, both conditions seemed to deliver various and comparable benefits. Most of the time, the continuous condition seemed to deliver slightly more benefits. However, I have not found anything regarding stroke volume.

E.g., this study from De Busk et al. (1990) compared jogging for 1x30' vs. 3x10', and the results were pretty similar: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000291499091005Q?via=ihub
Here is another overview (Murphy et al. 2012).

--
This quote sums up the most relevant take-away from various studies:
"In other words, the total weekly exercise time appeared to matter more than the duration of the single bouts." (Kim et al, 2020, p. 103)

Kim, H., Reece, J., & Kang, M. (2020). Effects of accumulated short bouts of exercise on weight and obesity indices in adults: a meta-analysis. American Journal of Health Promotion, 34(1), 96-104.

In other words: Don't be afraid to split it up, if that works for you. I remember reading some training plans by pro runners including short 15 minute morning runs 6x per week, to add another 90 minutes to the total volume.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's wild. That's the opposite of anything I've ever heard on the subject. I guess volume really is king, which suits me just fine.
 
Pasibrzuch said:
how would one implement cardio work into the Strength Shortcuts/Microsessions system?
Click to expand...
one might take a look at Dr. Gibala's descriptions (in the book: One Minute Workout) of how very short and intense intervals can substitute for a substantial amount of time (albeit maybe not completely for all possible adaptive goals) of steady state work.

I've been using 4-6 minute templates of "short intense intervals" to substitute for the time I don't have to spend on long walks.

while I'm still in the middle of my experimentation, I can say that the effect is non-zero and positive.

so, for example.
Merely speed walking, in a Tabata timed format.

20s on ( walking as fast as humanly possible, all out walking like I'm late for my flight )​
10s off ( pacing slowly or shaking it out )​
repeating this 8 times,​
in 4 minutes.​

I complete a lap around the parking lot at work ( or two ) to cool off, for a grand total of 10-15 minutes. it does a lot more than some might think.

the comparisons between steady state and interval training that are provided in the book are stark.

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So far for me, the effects are positive.
but I'm still in the middle of observing the effects.

and, dr. gibala does a good job of putting some daylight between using intervals in your training and using a puke circuit to overwork yourself. the intervals can be easy or difficult, the ratios can range from 8:12 seconds to 4:4 minutes (W:R). you can spend as many as 30 minutes a day or as few as 4 minutes per day, in my training (especially if you're going to omit a warm-up / cool-down period, like I do sometimes). It's very flexible too. You can use a bike, an erg, a staircase, or do burpees or jumping jacks on a patch of floor.
 
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Bauer said:
I have had the same question some time ago and found a few interesting research items on the differences between continuous vs. accumulated exercise (e.g, 1x30' vs. 3x10' walking or jogging). Mostly, both conditions seemed to deliver various and comparable benefits. Most of the time, the continuous condition seemed to deliver slightly more benefits. However, I have not found anything regarding stroke volume.

E.g., this study from De Busk et al. (1990) compared jogging for 1x30' vs. 3x10', and the results were pretty similar: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000291499091005Q?via=ihub
Here is another overview (Murphy et al. 2012).

--
This quote sums up the most relevant take-away from various studies:
"In other words, the total weekly exercise time appeared to matter more than the duration of the single bouts." (Kim et al, 2020, p. 103)

Kim, H., Reece, J., & Kang, M. (2020). Effects of accumulated short bouts of exercise on weight and obesity indices in adults: a meta-analysis. American Journal of Health Promotion, 34(1), 96-104.

In other words: Don't be afraid to split it up, if that works for you. I remember reading some training plans by pro runners including short 15 minute morning runs 6x per week, to add another 90 minutes to the total volume.
Click to expand...
To add to it. I think a portion of the stimulus is created by the within-day-deficit that you are creating (basically, fasting faster when you don't eat during exercise). Longer sessions are volume + greater cumulated deficit. My guess is that the benefits of longer sessions disappear if you combine it with carb-cycling strategies.
 
I'm planning on splitting ROP throughout the day into microsessions.

As time is really limited, I need advice on a very quick warm-up I can incorporate before each microsession. Any advice please?
 
Mo04 said:
I'm planning on splitting ROP throughout the day into microsessions.

As time is really limited, I need advice on a very quick warm-up I can incorporate before each microsession. Any advice please?
Click to expand...
I would do different type of resets mostly (1-2 of them, each time for 20-30 seconds or so)

One-arm rocking,
Commando rocking,
Rolling
Neck nods,
Crawling
Maybe some halos or hanging here and there. Maybe a hardstyle plank.

Otherwise the easier rungs can be a warmup of sorts.
 
Mo04 said:
I'm planning on splitting ROP throughout the day into microsessions.

As time is really limited, I need advice on a very quick warm-up I can incorporate before each microsession. Any advice please?
Click to expand...
Some times first thing the morning, I will hang a little on the pull up bar, maybe light foam roll, grab a lighter bell and do a few presses. Tomorrow I’m in my final week 5 of ROP and the volume will be 5(1,2,3,4) for the medium day. Once I get the first couple sets in, I find I don’t need to warm up when spreading them throughout the day. I basically will do a few sets each hour and get as much work in as possible while staying as fresh as possible and the consistency just keeps my body ready to go.
 
Great. Thank you for the warm-up advice

I'll see how I go. Think I might be ok with doing a single warmup at the start of the day for the C&P's --> if I feel cold/stiff, might do a few lighter rungs before each session

For snatch/swings part of ROP, I'll try OS rocking and see if that's enough.

Thanks everyone for your advice
 
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