"Strong" Came Through Again!

[Whalenoises]

What are your training goals? What are you looking at from a program?

Currently dealing with “base building” and suffering from program analysis paralysis.

I’m stuck between just doing giant or strong for C+P obviously, but I want to get my kb front squat up as well. I can currently do 20kg for 5 clean and press, and 5-10 on squat.

I’m also not sure where to start if I were to do giant or strong, giant 3 then from the top, or just commit to strong with the 20kg. But then how could I approach squats.

Geoff’s article reflecting on strong recommended not doing it until you could hold and press half your bodyweight, which would be around the 30kgs for me. So I’m not there yet. He listed a program for that situation that might be worth doing.

I have maximorum, but I don’t feel confident in my base to do snatches.

My current ideal goal is to get to a 24kgx10 C+P and Front Squat

Haha! You can see I’m overthinking it!

Any advice appreciated. @John Grahill @Geoff Neupert

 

[John Grahill]

Currently dealing with “base building” and suffering from program analysis paralysis.

I’m stuck between just doing giant or strong for C+P obviously, but I want to get my kb front squat up as well. I can currently do 20kg for 5 clean and press, and 5-10 on squat.

I’m also not sure where to start if I were to do giant or strong, giant 3 then from the top, or just commit to strong with the 20kg. But then how could I approach squats.

Geoff’s article reflecting on strong recommended not doing it until you could hold and press half your bodyweight, which would be around the 30kgs for me. So I’m not there yet. He listed a program for that situation that might be worth doing.

I have maximorum, but I don’t feel confident in my base to do snatches.

My current ideal goal is to get to a 24kgx10 C+P and Front Squat

Haha! You can see I’m overthinking it!

Any advice appreciated. @John Grahill @Geoff Neupert

@Whalenoises I'm not an instructor and don't have the knowledge and expertise as @Geoff Neupert @WxHerk @John K @Don Fairbanks @Steve Freides @Mark Limbaga etc. (These guys are sharp) but I can offer advice from my personal training experience(s).

When you say you can get 20kg for 5 c+p's, is that single or double? If it's a single I'd recommend 2 programs. 1 is the "Rite of Passage" and the other would be the Giant 3.0.

If you're talking about double 20 kgs as your 5 rep max and are concerned about front squatting then I'm thinking you might actually do well giving consideration to Geoff's "Dry Fighting Weight" Program which you can access here on the SF site.

You can always add a few sets of front squats after your clean and presses in "Strong" or the "Giant" for maintenance purposes but if you're looking to increase strength in both movements you probably can't go wrong with DFW. The Giant and Strong wouldn't really have enough squatting volume to make improvements in squatting.

However, do not discount the kettlebell clean and press as a focused movement making your whole body strong!

 

[Whalenoises]

@Whalenoises I'm not an instructor and don't have the knowledge and expertise as @Geoff Neupert @WxHerk @John K @Don Fairbanks @Steve Freides @Mark Limbaga etc. (These guys are sharp) but I can offer advice from my personal training experience(s).

When you say you can get 20kg for 5 c+p's, is that single or double? If it's a single I'd recommend 2 programs. 1 is the "Rite of Passage" and the other would be the Giant 3.0.

If you're talking about double 20 kgs as your 5 rep max and are concerned about front squatting then I'm thinking you might actually do well giving consideration to Geoff's "Dry Fighting Weight" Program which you can access here on the SF site.

You can always add a few sets of front squats after your clean and presses in "Strong" or the "Giant" for maintenance purposes but if you're looking to increase strength in both movements you probably can't go wrong with DFW. The Giant and Strong wouldn't really have enough squatting volume to make improvements in squatting.

However, do not discount the kettlebell clean and press as a focused movement making your whole body strong!

Thank you for such an in depth response!

I’m thinking about what you said at the end there. It might be good to just run giant for a while to give myself a focus. Then reassess if I want to pursue maximorum or something else.

 

[John K]

Currently dealing with “base building” and suffering from program analysis paralysis.

I’m stuck between just doing giant or strong for C+P obviously, but I want to get my kb front squat up as well. I can currently do 20kg for 5 clean and press, and 5-10 on squat.

I’m also not sure where to start if I were to do giant or strong, giant 3 then from the top, or just commit to strong with the 20kg. But then how could I approach squats.

Geoff’s article reflecting on strong recommended not doing it until you could hold and press half your bodyweight, which would be around the 30kgs for me. So I’m not there yet. He listed a program for that situation that might be worth doing.

I have maximorum, but I don’t feel confident in my base to do snatches.

My current ideal goal is to get to a 24kgx10 C+P and Front Squat

Haha! You can see I’m overthinking it!

Any advice appreciated. @John Grahill @Geoff Neupert

Pick up easy muscle if you want a done for you squat + c&p program. Or check out Dry Fighting Weight.

Otherwise just pick Giant or Strong and do it. Feel free to add up to 10-15 reps of “something else” on your training days - like 3x3 or 3x5 squats one day, or some pull-ups another day, etc.

The main thing is to pick something that, in your case, allows you to train the clean and press and the front squat. There are tons of options, but what I’ve mentioned here are all in Geoff’s training universe.

 

[getterupper]

I have maximorum, but I don’t feel confident in my base to do snatches.

For whatever it's worth, I'm a relative beginner running Maximorum with swings instead of snatches. I know it's not by the book, and snatches would undoubtedly be better, but I'm finding it to be a pretty well-rounded base-building program nonetheless.

I think there's a lot to be said for any program that combines a single-bell "big pull" with double-bell C+P/FS, especially when the trainee has no clear goals other than "moving well" and "getting in shape." It ticks a lot of boxes and need not be over-analyzed (I suffer from the same affliction).

 

[John Grahill]

Pick up easy muscle if you want a done for you squat + c&p program. Or check out Dry Fighting Weight.

Otherwise just pick Giant or Strong and do it. Feel free to add up to 10-15 reps of “something else” on your training days - like 3x3 or 3x5 squats one day, or some pull-ups another day, etc.

The main thing is to pick something that, in your case, allows you to train the clean and press and the front squat. There are tons of options, but what I’ve mentioned here are all in Geoff’s training universe.

Told ya he was sharp!

 

[John K]

Told ya he was sharp!

Means a lot coming from you John! Thanks!

 

[Whalenoises]

Pick up easy muscle if you want a done for you squat + c&p program. Or check out Dry Fighting Weight.

Otherwise just pick Giant or Strong and do it. Feel free to add up to 10-15 reps of “something else” on your training days - like 3x3 or 3x5 squats one day, or some pull-ups another day, etc.

The main thing is to pick something that, in your case, allows you to train the clean and press and the front squat. There are tons of options, but what I’ve mentioned here are all in Geoff’s training universe.

For whatever it's worth, I'm a relative beginner running Maximorum with swings instead of snatches. I know it's not by the book, and snatches would undoubtedly be better, but I'm finding it to be a pretty well-rounded base-building program nonetheless.

I think there's a lot to be said for any program that combines a single-bell "big pull" with double-bell C+P/FS, especially when the trainee has no clear goals other than "moving well" and "getting in shape." It ticks a lot of boxes and need not be over-analyzed (I suffer from the same affliction).

Thanks for the advice! The confusing part is Geoff said in his strength standards video to start with front squats, then clean and press. So it makes it a bit confusing to figure out where to start when the simplest program is for clean and press only lol

I had the thought to do and ABA split with the giant rep schemes with each exercise on its own day…

 

[Kettlebellguy]

Thanks for the advice! The confusing part is Geoff said in his strength standards video to start with front squats, then clean and press. So it makes it a bit confusing to figure out where to start when the simplest program is for clean and press only lol

I had the thought to do and ABA split with the giant rep schemes with each exercise on its own day…

Why not just do Dry Fighting weight as other suggested? If you do a kettlebell clean and press only program from my experience if you will not improve your kettlebell front squat strength you will definitely maintain it (The most important thing imo is to do a couple after your session to maintain that squatting patter as others have suggested I always do something like 3X3 or 2X2)

 

[Whalenoises]

Why not just do Dry Fighting weight as other suggested? If you do a kettlebell clean and press only program from my experience if you will not improve your kettlebell front squat strength you will definitely maintain it (The most important thing imo is to do a couple after your session to maintain that squatting patter as others have suggested I always do something like 3X3 or 2X2)

Yeah that probably makes the most sense. I think the idea in my head is alternating sets vs focusing on one movement at a time per day

 

[Halfakneecap]

Currently dealing with “base building” and suffering from program analysis paralysis.

I’m stuck between just doing giant or strong for C+P obviously, but I want to get my kb front squat up as well. I can currently do 20kg for 5 clean and press, and 5-10 on squat.

I’m also not sure where to start if I were to do giant or strong, giant 3 then from the top, or just commit to strong with the 20kg. But then how could I approach squats.

Geoff’s article reflecting on strong recommended not doing it until you could hold and press half your bodyweight, which would be around the 30kgs for me. So I’m not there yet. He listed a program for that situation that might be worth doing.

I have maximorum, but I don’t feel confident in my base to do snatches.

My current ideal goal is to get to a 24kgx10 C+P and Front Squat

Haha! You can see I’m overthinking it!

Any advice appreciated. @John Grahill @Geoff Neupert

I couldn’t press half my body weight when I started Strong. I had great results. It works.

This year has been a year of training around minor issues. Very frustrating trying to find things that work, I keep thinking back to when I was doing Strong. Took most of a year and I felt great, no issues at all.

Highly recommend Strong.

 

[John K]

Thanks for the advice! The confusing part is Geoff said in his strength standards video to start with front squats, then clean and press. So it makes it a bit confusing to figure out where to start when the simplest program is for clean and press only lol

I had the thought to do and ABA split with the giant rep schemes with each exercise on its own day…

If you have Maximorum and like it, run it! If you're not ready for your snatch days, just use them as practice days. All this thinking is a delaying tactic. In your mind, have strength days (DCP / DFS) and skill days (focus on learning the snatch). No more thinking. Ignore everything else and just use Maximorum and get stronger with your 20s.

 

[Whalenoises]

If you have Maximorum and like it, run it! If you're not ready for your snatch days, just use them as practice days. All this thinking is a delaying tactic. In your mind, have strength days (DCP / DFS) and skill days (focus on learning the snatch). No more thinking. Ignore everything else and just use Maximorum and get stronger with your 20s.

Damn it. That settles it

 

[Geoff Neupert]

@John Grahill,

Yeah, @John K is VERY sharp! Sometimes when I read his answers, I feel like he's reading my mind. The good news is it saves me time posting. ;-) (Thanks, John!)

@Whalenoises, I concur with @John K 's last post. Do that.

 

[Whalenoises]

@John Grahill,

Yeah, @John K is VERY sharp! Sometimes when I read his answers, I feel like he's reading my mind. The good news is it saves me time posting. ;-) (Thanks, John!)

@Whalenoises, I concur with @John K 's last post. Do that.

Thank you Geoff! I started today with snatches as a “practice” day like John suggested. Set up 25, 30, 35, and 40 and just went up as a ladder for the designated reps.

I did “half snatches” I believe the term is. Snatch, then lower to the rack, then snatch.

Any issues with using that technique?

 

[Halfakneecap]

Thank you Geoff! I started today with snatches as a “practice” day like John suggested. Set up 25, 30, 35, and 40 and just went up as a ladder for the designated reps.

I did “half snatches” I believe the term is. Snatch, then lower to the rack, then snatch.

Any issues with using that technique?

I started Max earlier in the year but had to stop due to an unrelated issue with my traps/neck. I haven’t done much snatching so i did exactly what you’re doing, half snatch with a focus on “practice”. It worked quite well before I stopped.

I’ve since worked out snatching doesn’t bother it, so I’m still practicing half snatch.

My strategy is to get to a reasonable weight with the half snatch before learning the full snatch. Personally, I like low rep heavy work, which half snatch will work well for imho

 

[Rune K]

Pick up easy muscle if you want a done for you squat + c&p program. Or check out Dry Fighting Weight.

Otherwise just pick Giant or Strong and do it. Feel free to add up to 10-15 reps of “something else” on your training days - like 3x3 or 3x5 squats one day, or some pull-ups another day, etc.

The main thing is to pick something that, in your case, allows you to train the clean and press and the front squat. There are tons of options, but what I’ve mentioned here are all in Geoff’s training universe.

This is what I do. I’m doing the “Slow and steady” C+P with 3 sets of 3-5 DFSQ.

I guess this is individual with how fast you recover; but would you consider doing axe snatch for 10 minutes at the end for conditioning at and also slow progression strength too much work?

My goal is to comfortably snatch, squat and press double 32kg. My main work is now C+P, but I don’t want to leave squat and snatch behind.

 

[John K]

This is what I do. I’m doing the “Slow and steady” C+P with 3 sets of 3-5 DFSQ.

I guess this is individual with how fast you recover; but would you consider doing axe snatch for 10 minutes at the end for conditioning at and also slow progression strength too much work?

My goal is to comfortably snatch, squat and press double 32kg. My main work is now C+P, but I don’t want to leave squat and snatch behind.

That might be enough work to maintain your snatch. You’ll maintain your technique. The best way to tell is to do it and then see if that was enough for you.

 

[Whalenoises]

This is what I do. I’m doing the “Slow and steady” C+P with 3 sets of 3-5 DFSQ.

I guess this is individual with how fast you recover; but would you consider doing axe snatch for 10 minutes at the end for conditioning at and also slow progression strength too much work?

My goal is to comfortably snatch, squat and press double 32kg. My main work is now C+P, but I don’t want to leave squat and snatch behind.

FWIW, this is what I've been agonizing over so the wise coaches recommended Maximorum because it trains all 3 moves equally

 

[Rune K]

Yeah I did Maximorum when it came out. But now I have a bit unpredictable training schedule - it can be every other day or one time a week. So the best program for me is to do the same exercises every workout/practise. And be consistent over time.