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Old Forum Swings 3x25 Hybrid Strength Programming

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Rocco

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This is my first post.  I truly believe Strongfirst is a fantastic resource.  Thank you all.  Anyway, the topic title has been my recent blueprint for success and life domination as of late.  I have been a follower a Pavel since 2007 and have been obsessed with Power To The People and Minimalist Training ever since.  Rif posted an article on Swings last year about "Treating your Swings as a Lift."  I believe this is true.  I am a everday warrior that has achieved a 500 lbs deadlift and I am able to press a 124lbs kettlebell.  Anyway, from everyday wear a tear and life responsiblies I have been focusing on Swings with a twist, and keeping with the powerlifting mindset.  The program of 3 sets of 25 swings will allow you to dominate heavy bells, make you very strong, increase you work capacity, and even lose fat.  The program is as follows:

- 3 sets of 25 swings working with heavest bell in good form (I am currently using 56kg bell)

- 3 minutes rest between sets (sticking with Power To The People philosophy)

- Total workout time lasts 9 minutes, Totaling 75 reps. 

Strength:

As previously stated this allows me to attack very heavy bells and strengthens by posterior chain.  The amount of rest in between sets allows me to approach each set fresh and ready for max explosiveness. Pavel has recommended a rep range of 10-20 for swings in the past.  However, I feel 25 hits the sweet spot.  Reps 1 through 10 within the set feel very explosive, reps 11-20 test your strength, reps 21-25 strength endurance.  In addition, 75 reps total has been recommended by Tim Ferriss as the Minimal Effective Dose. 

Psychological Effect of 3x25 Swings:

As I stated before 3x25 swings (w/ 3 mins. rest) allows me to stay in the powerlifting mindset.  It has personally led me to be able to Swing 124 lb bell with ease.  In addition, it can be done daily (like PTTP and S&S).  Furthermore, I feel that 3 sets in this manner is the perfect amount.  4 sets is too much, 5 is too much etc.  After 3 sets, you are leaving the session at your strongest.  As Pavel says you are ready to "battle for a Kingdom."  Lastly, psychologically this workout can not only be repeated each day, but can even be repeated for two, even 3 sessions within a day: making it similar to Grease The Groove and hitting the Minimal Effective Dose several times.  And I feel that is this program is excuse proof.  No matter how busy you are, you will be able to complete it.  (and even repeat within a day).

With this template, I have maintained my Deadlift.  I feel stronger than ever. And, I actually feel that my conditioning has improved.  I'm really STRONG, but at the same time ready to go 0 to 60 at any given moment.  And I feel it complements my busy life.  Strength truly does make everything easier. 

Remember, I recommended this program for the powerlifter who wants to supplement his training.  Or, the everday warrior who IS strong and wants to even avoid injury.  This will allow you to dominate heavy bells.  Think of it as a Swing PTTP. 

Thank you for your time.

 
 
Sounds all good minus the name Tim ferris. That's salt free garbage from his mouth. He's not an athlete, nor coach or mentor. He's a business man with appeal to the masses and unsubstantiated claims which work for him. He uses anecdote as evidence and wraps it in pseudoscience to charge whatever bullshit costs. But, your idea is good and I'd bet you know more than he does and use less PED. To me he could appear less of a bottom feeder, but he hides it pretty good. Not the kinda man I'd ever shake hands with.
 
Ed, welcome to SF and thank you for your kind words!

I have no doubt your program works but I still urge you to drop the reps to twenty.  It takes about 30sec to finish a set of twenty with a heavy bell.  30sec is the cutoff point for the phospagens in the muscle; beyond you are into glycolysis.  So you are not far enough into glycolysis to get enough adaptation there, yet you are out of the alactacid pathway.

Based on Russian research, your rest periods are within the optimal range for this type of training (1:6-1:1 work to rest ratio).  You are at around 1:5.  You may slowly decrease the rest—but not below 1:1 and never at the expense of power.

Keep us updated.

 
 
Eric, go easy on Tim.  He may not be a coach, but he learns from the right people.  The strength training chapters in his book are very dialed in.
 
to be fair his book is about more than just strength.  my main point was that the original poster had the right idea and should refer to Tim Ferris for confirmation. On this board alone stand two of the highest regard coaches in the industry. That should be your guidance. I respect your relationship with him, and my opinion is just that.
 
Pavel,

Thank you very much for responding. I appreciate you taking time to read my program. I also appreciate the affirmation that you feel that the program is sound. I am achieving great success and feel stronger and harder than ever. I will also take your recomendations under account and advisement.  As everyone here knows and feels, you are a true asset to the Strength community. We all thank you for your knowledge, perspective, and even care in our endeavors of breeding out weakness among the masses.

Eric,

I also appreciate your kind words. I even appreciate your compliment that I have more knowledge than the famous author that I cited. I also enjoy your posts as well. So thank you.

Have a great day everyone. Strength and Honor.
 
ed i really trust that this kind of training works. i use something similar but with lower weight just like sharpening especially during summer or so. and what is a coincidence i used it recently too but just for week. it was rest week mostly with swings. i felt refreshed and full of power after that. unfortunately is too limiting for me as i am not powerlifter and i don´t focus mainly on dl (and have no such heavy bell). sometimes i use just 2x25 but it's a little bit different and especially for deload, some quasi free day.

eric: you was really sharp. it's not so often here ;) but honestly i understand. i have problem with tim generaly for two reasons: 1. his everytime hacking - i don't believe in it. effort is real input. and what you get in is matter of programming and focus. don't believe that it can work in long terms or like lifetime mindset. consistency is one of the most important things in training and any steal here steal there can't beat it. don't talking you miss building your willpower, patience etc. 2. as for me he looks kinda sociopathic. no cost, no sacrifice, no hard work (probably no work at all is best). just easy results, easy money and easy life. i can't respect these people. but i respect his choice. and he probably will find himself that easy road goes to hell. and others (readers and followers)? blinded follow blinded and you can't change it. world run on and everything has right time...
 
Was this post about 3x25 swing or was this post about Tim. I have never posted on here before because of this.

If I do post and I get an attack from someone or responds in this manner I will personnaly email Toomey or Pavel.

No need to attack and no one cares about your opinion of Tim.
 
This forum is about the free flow of ideas and the quest of taking our bodies to new levels of functionality where Strength is concerned. My post was primarily about a template for the Deadlifter using Swings as a supplement, complement, or even alternative at very heavy amounts for the person who has high mileage (yes, Deads can never be replaced). I was applying StrongFirst principles in the endeavor of conquering heavy bells. I applied the principles of Power To The People, Rif's "Treating the Swing as a Lift" (more mindset for me), and even brought in the possibility of Grease The Groove because this template is time efficient and excuse proof. I feel Stronger than ever and am injury free. I don't care about the named author. I care about getting STRONG. This program will get you strong. Start treating your Swing as a Lift, in the powerlifting mindset, with powerlifting rest periods(for heavy loads)....you will dominate heavy bells.  As rif says "Swings are the real Power To The People."

I also want to articulate better the reason behind three sets. Power To The People is obviously two sets of five Deadlifts. I personally figure very heavy Swings deserve three sets because it is not the same load or exact movement as a Dead (obviously). I stated in my original post, 4 sets is too much, 5 is too much, etc. Three sets in this template is the perfect balance between a "workout" and "Strength Practice," which leads to repeatability and consistency. Three sets can be done daily (at heavy weights FOR Swings) and can even be repeated later (GTG), "doing as much as possible while being as fresh as possible." Remember I have found that at 3 sets of 25 with very heavy swings you are leaving the mini session at your strongest and freshest ("ready to battle for a kingdom").

Bottom line, swinging heavy bells in this manner will make you strong. It will preserve your posterior chain for deadlifts; and at these heavy loads will train your central nervous system to contract the muscles harder for the reasons I mentioned above. I am Swinging a 124lbs bell (56kg) easily. I may be moving up to a 150 lbs bell soon (and the bell doesn't swing me, I swing the bell). I offered this program as my first post because I've been StrongFirst since 2007. I didn't ask a pointless question or say something with no basis. I offered this program from hard training and knowledge from working in the Strength trenches. I am STRONG, and as Pavel say's I will keep repeating till Strong (or Stronger). This was simply my "Power" oriented Swing manifesto.
 
I was first off giving credit to the original poster and his plan of action. I'm just a straight shooter is all, and I feel Tim a Ferris is not an authority figure. That's all. Please don't let my opinion stop you from asking questions. I was an RKC and truly love helping when I can. I hope you understand this and find what your looking for here.
 
thanks gentlemen for your kind words and patience but i think she "talk" to me :) what can i say? eric wrote what he wrote and i wrote that i understand and why. that's all. i didn't want to start any flame war and i don't want to partake it. i don't understand why email pavel when he has post in this thread and it shows that he know what is happening in this forum...
 
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