Old Forum swings before tgu
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TravisS
Level 5 Valued Member
Power before Strength
http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/is-this-right/
http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/get-ups-before-swings/
To quote Steve Freides
<blockquote>As a general guideline, were you to have a single workout that included explosive/power lifting, strength training, and cardio, you would do them in that order. What’s changed in S&S, to put it simply, is that it used to be getups for strength and swings for cardio, and now it’s swings for maximum explosive power and getups for strength.
As to _why_ the order is power then strength then cardio, that’s been answered by people far more knowledgeable and experienced than me. I’m sure that, among other places, Supertraining covers it.
http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/is-this-right/
http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/get-ups-before-swings/
To quote Steve Freides
<blockquote>As a general guideline, were you to have a single workout that included explosive/power lifting, strength training, and cardio, you would do them in that order. What’s changed in S&S, to put it simply, is that it used to be getups for strength and swings for cardio, and now it’s swings for maximum explosive power and getups for strength.
As to _why_ the order is power then strength then cardio, that’s been answered by people far more knowledgeable and experienced than me. I’m sure that, among other places, Supertraining covers it.
And this one http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/a-rave-and-a-question/
Quoting Steve Freides here as well:
Consider that, on the continuum which has explosiveness first and strength second, strength-endurance comes third, and plain endurance comes fourth. S&S has you doing the first and second of these things, while the swings in the Program Minimum are performed as strength-endurance work rather than maximally explosive work – you’d be doing the second and third things in my list of four rather than the first and the second. There is nothing wrong with this but, in our view here, it’s not as good as doing the first and second things as directed in S&S.
Quoting Steve Freides here as well:
Consider that, on the continuum which has explosiveness first and strength second, strength-endurance comes third, and plain endurance comes fourth. S&S has you doing the first and second of these things, while the swings in the Program Minimum are performed as strength-endurance work rather than maximally explosive work – you’d be doing the second and third things in my list of four rather than the first and the second. There is nothing wrong with this but, in our view here, it’s not as good as doing the first and second things as directed in S&S.
Hey, I'm like, famous, y' know? 
Thank you, Travis and Anna.
rjv, what I said earlier still applies. Another way to look at this issue is that your skill and speed will suffer more by being placed second than your strength will suffer in that same position in your workout. Note that in Olympic lifting training, the rep range is typically lower than in powerlifting training for this same reason, i.e., you can get a good enough fifth heavy press in a set but it's harder (some would say impossible) to get a good fifth heavy snatch or jerk in a set.
-S-
Thank you, Travis and Anna.rjv, what I said earlier still applies. Another way to look at this issue is that your skill and speed will suffer more by being placed second than your strength will suffer in that same position in your workout. Note that in Olympic lifting training, the rep range is typically lower than in powerlifting training for this same reason, i.e., you can get a good enough fifth heavy press in a set but it's harder (some would say impossible) to get a good fifth heavy snatch or jerk in a set.
-S-
Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Very nice links and information. I never knew the difference. I have been doing Program Minimum from ETK for the last few weeks. After swings, every time I am out of breadth. I guess it is because the swings are used for cardio right?
Does Pavel not still recommend ETK? I am 41 years old, 6'1" 188 lbs. My primary goal to get strong, get some muscle definitions going, lose a bit weight in the process. I know I want to switch to S&S because that is Pavel's latest work. But my question is, does it make sense to stick with PM for some more time? Should I do S&S transition right now? How about RoP, which I was aiming to get to eventually? I will do what you experts say.
Thank you.
Does Pavel not still recommend ETK? I am 41 years old, 6'1" 188 lbs. My primary goal to get strong, get some muscle definitions going, lose a bit weight in the process. I know I want to switch to S&S because that is Pavel's latest work. But my question is, does it make sense to stick with PM for some more time? Should I do S&S transition right now? How about RoP, which I was aiming to get to eventually? I will do what you experts say.
Thank you.
Abdul, S&S is the Program Minimum but improved. You may switch now or at any time and needn't look back.
Many folks around here like to do the ROP after achieving at least the Simple goal in S&S, or after the Sinister.
-S-
Many folks around here like to do the ROP after achieving at least the Simple goal in S&S, or after the Sinister.
-S-
krg
Level 7 Valued Member
Abdul, I have about 40 lbs on you (almost certainly not muscle either) but other than that similar age, height and goals.
I have seen better, smoother progression since switching from program minimum to S+S (although I think the learning and remedial exercises in ETK are great).
Also the goblet squats in the warm up are well worth incorporating, they are really improving my lower body flexibility. Doing get-ups second is tough when you start to move up a weight though.
I have seen better, smoother progression since switching from program minimum to S+S (although I think the learning and remedial exercises in ETK are great).
Also the goblet squats in the warm up are well worth incorporating, they are really improving my lower body flexibility. Doing get-ups second is tough when you start to move up a weight though.
Abdul-Rasheed
Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks folks. S&S here I come
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