guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
I find that when focusing on retraction (squeezing shoulder blades together, touching chest to bar) the natural tendency is for the body to want to go into an arched, extended position.
It is much more difficult to retract fully while staying hollow. It’s not un-doable, but the reason I think it’s more difficult is because you are asking the shoulder girdle to do all the work with no compensations from changing posture to make it “easier.” Even well respected, super strong calisthenics athletes will tell you to focus on retracting, but don’t expect full retraction. It’s more about the intent.
I agree with the advice Steve gave. Practice squeezing the position you want at an intensity you can handle. Maybe mix it up with some rows here and there, focusing on tight glutes and a strict hollow position.
If it’s a mobility issue, then it’s a shoulder extension issue. Shoulder extension is trained by virtually no one outside gymnasts. It’s also often the limiting factor when people cannot get a muscle up when they can do heavy dips and pull-ups no problem.
To test your shoulder extension, grab a dowel/stick (something very light!) and hold it behind you with your palms facing forward. Hands should be only slightly wider than your hips or shoulders. Walk face first towards a wall so you cannot lean forward or stick your chin out. Keep your arms totally straight (no bending the elbows!) and see how high you can lift your arms behind you.
I would give vague benchmarks as follows:
-excellent is 90°, arms all the way as high as your shoulders. Very few people can do this.
-good is around 45°
-needs much improvement is anything lower than 45°
You can do this as a mobility exercise. Simply repeat for reps, focusing on external shoulder rotation and a good squeeze between the shoulder blades. For most people a pic pipe will crush them in the exercise.
I am the OP on this thread who had difficulty getting the tac pullup.
Well I am happy to report back three tactical reps this week. I still can't touch the lower chest but now I can touch the chin well under the jawline for a count to standard. I had been doing the things below and realized that I have not tried touching the chin for quite a while so I tested it this week.
I can't prove it but here is what I think helped because there were others on this thread asking about this.
@Benjamin Renaud
Maybe those more knowledgeable can agree or disagree with what I chose.1. Should extension exercise as recommended above by @bluejeff. Did them during breaks working at the computer. Did regular shoulder dislocations before bed. Overall shoulder health better. As he says, training shoulder extension is rare except for gymnasts. Almost everyone should do this one.
2. Switched out regular pullups for feet elevated inverted rows as my main pullup regression. Very underrated exercise in my opinion. The perfect complement to a pushup program. It was recommended as the best regression to chest to bar pullups.
3. I read an old article from Pavel and realized that in my attempt to touch the bar with the chest, I lost the tension in my hollow hold position. Pavel describes a sunken chest, not an big chest. Look at his form here: The Fighter Pullup Program Revisited | StrongFirst As bluejeff mentioned, and as Kenny Croxdale has recently mentioned in another thread, having an internal cue of chest to bar may have gotten in the way rather than helped. Visualizing going over a wall as an external cue may be better (that it is why it is called a tactical pullup because it is a regression to a muscle up position). Brett Jones has this visualization cue in an article and also to put the grip slightly more overhand.
4. I read somewhere that the pec minor plays a role in closing the distance, so I started doing chest dips, which are said to target this. Also, this give practice in holding your entire bodyweight. Another reason for this is that all the tactical strength challenge exercises are very posterior chain dominant, so I have been neglecting chest/pushups lately.
5. Isolation holds in the top position of the dip. This really helped build arms and core. It is a gymnastics exercise. Just hold the hollow body position in the dip position. Like the hardstyle plank, your core will be shaking. All straight arm work really hits the biceps, which are secondary muscles in the movement.
6. Scapular pullups for warmups and cooldowns and lat activation practice.
7. Gironda pullups neutral grip singles to try to get chest to bar and build lats.
8. Hanging leg raises, bar hanging for time as my cool down as grip work.
9. I am not used to the thumbless grip so that might have taken time.
10. A slightly wider bar grip was more comfortable on the shoulders.
11. Pulling elbows in and back cue.
12. More attention to a micro pause for scapular activation and tension building before initiating the movement.
My next step, I will do sets of two with a two second pause at the bottom and a pause at the top (Steve F. tip) to make sure I can meet the TSC standard (master's category). The results from the pullup in the master's category are interesting. There are some impressive numbers in the top 12 and then the numbers seem to drop right off. Those that have decent pullups after that don't have the deadlift numbers.
Next my snatch needs work. Deadlift step cycle (Deadlift Dynamite book) on track to peak with a PR.
Thanks for the tips and forum support.
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