all posts post new thread

Old Forum Thanks Pavel! -lanky sumo deadlift convert

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Mattsirpeace

Level 4 Valued Member
Hi all, just posting a big thanks to Pavel for some advice he gave me three weeks ago:

"Matt, a hex bar DL can be a useful adjunct to training but no more;  its leverage is too perfect to make you really strong--like a leg press...

...try medium wide sumo"

When Pavel speaks, comrades listen.  I had posted a rant, whining about my long femurs and how life isn't fair.  I've been able to pull four wheels or more off and on for eighteen years.  It just never felt good.  I have a goofy long-leg short-torso skeleton where it's geometrically impossible for be to hinge my butt back for conventional barbell pulls.  I was forced to discover the roundback-legpress technique.  Miserable and unnecessary for GPP needs.  My solution was to just use the hex bar only and avoid the whole knees-in-the-way issue.  But I'll admit I wasn't going anywhere -- stalled out at 416 lbs, high-handle.

So I took Pavel's advice and borrowed an olympic bar the very next day.  I tested sumos and got a single at 381.  It felt surprisingly natural.   In hindsight I was prepared to revisit sumos from doing heavy swings, as well as goblet squats.  For three weeks I've been "practicing" the movement, anywhere from 185 to 325, on the floor or on a 4 inch block.  Sets of five, three or four times a week, easy to medium effort.  Today I was testing strong so I went ahead and psyched up and got 436 at 217 -- my goal of 2 x bodyweight.  Nothing to brag about on this forum, but this was barefoot, no belt, double overhand.  I know 217 doesn't sound lanky, but I'm 6'2" and have a corndog build -- fake meat on a stick.

What I'm really thrilled about is how easy it was to switch to sumos.  The move meshes nicely with swings, so now I have a lifetime of hip-hinging to look forward to.  I was stuck before -- hex bar being ineffective, conventional being intolerable.  Now suddenly I can get ambitious if I want to.  What a treat to receive advice on the ultimate exercise, from the ultimate coach!

This forum is a great resource, and I promise to spread the word about StrongFirst!
 
That's awesome to hear. I've had a similar experience--and even though I've chosen to stay with the high hip, roundback, leg press technique; the wide sumo with a hard arch is my second best deadlift stance even without any training.
 
I'm the same build, 6'3", long femurs and short torso. Thinking back, I made the quickest gains when I pulled sumo. Feels natural. Conventional deads pumps up my lower back too much. I think I'll need to reconsider deadlifts. Although my only problem is that being lanky my glutes are quite developed so id need to fill out my upper body a little bit so i can at least look proportional.

Thanks to both of you for posting your experiences.
 
Is there anywhere I can get some info on ratios? Lengths of torso compared to limbs etc? Where to measure to and from etc?
 
I've only found one discussion of limbs & barbells, and there wasn't any big formula with measurements and ratios.  Height isn't really the issue since anybody can pull from any elevation they want.  I was using the high-handle hex bar as a mimic for swings, but I like standing on a block as well.  Coaches should just know about the height issue and compensate if the idea is, say, a 40-degree torso angle.

Imagine a stick figure viewed from the side, about to lift a barbell with see-through plates -- deadlift, clean, or snatch.  Butt back, tight arch, shoulders and arms in a plumb line over the bar.  That would make a great book cover for a standard get-big football barbell program.

Now take that stick figure and give him a long femur.  The bar collides with the shins, and the knees hang out over the bar.  Pulling becomes a complicated maneuver; upper back collapsed, pelvis scooped under, eyes on the floor, bar dragging up and over the knees and along the thighs.

When I was pulling this way the erectors in my middle back looked like a matching pair of overgrown tumors.  In Deadlift Dynamite Pavel mentions a study about erector-dominance correlating with back injuries and glute-dominance being protective.  I'm also thinking of Bret Contreras writing somewhere that there's no such thing as too much glutes.  Personally I'm just going for it with swings and sumos and saying no to the stupid American male mindset of lacking awareness of the largest joint in the body.  I plan on avoiding hip replacement surgery.   No skinny jeans for me.

What I suggest is that any barbell program include a screen or a caveat about the knees-in-the-way issue.  Anybody can test themselves or someone they are coaching.  A broomstick is too light but a bar loaded to 135 works. My guess is ten percent of people don't line up.  It's not mobility or weakness, it's geometry.  It just means weightlifting-style pulls are a dead end.  I managed to get 225 from the floor to the rack position.  But whatever I did, it wasn't a power clean -- it was a miracle.  With deads, there has to be some accommodation like sumos or the high-hips leg-drive style.  Or other options like swings, back squats, hex bar, even zerchers.  It's also key to be clear whether the goal is GPP or lifting the heaviest barbell possible.

It's great to be lifting a nasty old barbell again, same as everybody else.  So far so good with the sumos, and it looks to be my main choice  for many years to come.  I'm doing them grinding and slightly rounded, as a same-but-different complement to swings.  Thanks again to the Chief.  Really remarkable that he was able to give good advice on a forum, and also give me nightmares about being called a Big Chicken.

Signing off,

Tofu Corndog
 
P.S.

I wouldn't have sumos without swings,

I wouldn't have swings without kettlebells,

And I wouldn't have kettlebells without...

just sayin'
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom