The Battleship (BtS-RND) BTS4 vs BTS4 from BtS Maximum / BtS Seminar

[Xene]

@Fabio Zonin

I attended the online seminar last week and I am planning to do some hypertrophy work this winter as I do every winter. This time I would like to spend 8 to 12 weeks with a Built Strong program. I attended the BtS seminar online as well.

Can you tell me, when to use
-the Battleship
vs.
-the Excel generator from BtS Maximum
vs.
- a self written plan with the documents from the BtS seminar?

Are those templates same but different or does it even matter?

Thanks for clarification.

PS: I write this in here because of maybe other people would like to know it as well.

 

[renegadenate]

Are those templates same but different or does it even matter?

That's what I'm thinking.

The spreadsheets allow for more customization.

Battleship (Alice in Kettlebells) seems good for die variability for simplicity.

Definitely want to hear more from @Fabio Zonin

 

[Bauer]

Can you tell me, when to use
-the Battleship
vs.
-the Excel generator from BtS Maximum
vs.
- a self written plan with the documents from the BtS seminar?

Designing your own plan, will give you the most freedom, if you know what you are doing. Changing the ARI and volume for different exercises, tapering, etc. Maybe this would be best for S&C coaches of sport teams too.

For most people, the calculators are probably enough. I think the die roll plans are good for those that don't like to commit to a fixed 8-12 week cycle.

 

[Xene]

I am still wondering what @Fabio Zonin has to say about this

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Is there a specific goal you are looking to achieve at the moment?? Have you ran the BTS or the dice roll plan? If yes, how did it go for you?

 

[Xene]

Is there a specific goal you are looking to achieve at the moment?? Have you ran the BTS or the dice roll plan? If yes, how did it go for you?

No specific goal besides doing a strength/hypertrophy focused block of 8 to 12 weeks once per year while using mostly templates from Strong Endurance during the rest of the year. I always try to add some quality muscle mass during the winter without losing too much of my conditioning.

I just wanted to hear what Fabio says how to use those templates and when to use them and what‘s the main difference. I think more people than me would be interested.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

No specific goal besides doing a strength/hypertrophy focused block of 8 to 12 weeks once per year while using mostly templates from Strong Endurance during the rest of the year. I always try to add some quality muscle mass during the winter without losing too much of my conditioning.

I just wanted to hear what Fabio says how to use those templates and when to use them and what‘s the main difference. I think more people than me would be interested.

I have yet to run a custom BTS plan.. I have done BTS3 and the dice roll..

If you're aiming for more conditioning, my experience with these plans would be the dice roll first, then probably cruiser

 

[Pete L]

I just wanted to hear what Fabio says how to use those templates and when to use them and what‘s the main difference. I think more people than me would be interested.

The Alice in Kettlebells programme focuses on one load per exercise whereas BTS3,4 and 6 use three different load masses. This variation is spread across different exercises.
I think one of the benefits with the BTS3,4 and 6 programmes is the variation in load. It might be more likely to be successful for hypertrophy across the whole population as it covers more bases. Plus the the exercise variation does the same.
The total monthly volume also varies across the BTS3,4 and 6 programmes whereas the random version is likely to produce less ongoing variation.
This may be less critical if the programme is run for few weeks.

I think the die roll plans are good for those that don't like to commit to a fixed 8-12 week cycle.

I agree with @Bauer
The Alice in Kettlebells programme offers another programming option which is a good thing.

 

[renegadenate]

The Alice in Kettlebells programme focuses on one load per exercise whereas BTS3,4 and 6 use three different load masses. This variation is spread across different exercises.
I think one of the benefits with the BTS3,4 and 6 programmes is the variation in load. It might be more likely to be successful for hypertrophy across the whole population as it covers more bases. Plus the the exercise variation does the same.
The total monthly volume also varies across the BTS3,4 and 6 programmes

Oh, this is good to know!!!

Having load variability would make BuiltStrong way more awesome for me (it's what I need) than BuiltStrong Minimalist where volume is the only variability.

After three 8-week cycles of BuiltStrong Minimalist, I could use some load variability. I've just about used up all the volume variability.

I haven't picked up the new BuiltStrong program yet (waiting for a 50% off sale as we near Black Friday).

Load variability definitely makes me want it even more!

 

[Xene]

The Alice in Kettlebells programme focuses on one load per exercise whereas BTS3,4 and 6 use three different load masses. This variation is spread across different exercises.
I think one of the benefits with the BTS3,4 and 6 programmes is the variation in load. It might be more likely to be successful for hypertrophy across the whole population as it covers more bases. Plus the the exercise variation does the same.
The total monthly volume also varies across the BTS3,4 and 6 programmes whereas the random version is likely to produce less ongoing variation.
This may be less critical if the programme is run for few weeks.

I agree with @Bauer
The Alice in Kettlebells programme offers another programming option which is a good thing.

Thank you very much for your thoughts.
But I am thinking about the big brother of the cruiser that‘s called the battleship. It was part of the Programming Demystified. There is also load variability (H/L/M days).

 

[Pete L]

Oh, this is good to know!!!

Having load variability would make BuiltStrong way more awesome for me (it's what I need) than BuiltStrong Minimalist where volume is the only variability.

After three 8-week cycles of BuiltStrong Minimalist, I could use some load variability. I've just about used up all the volume variability.

I haven't picked up the new BuiltStrong program yet (waiting for a 50% off sale as we near Black Friday).

Load variability definitely makes me want it even more!

Hi @renegadenate
The load doesn't vary like in step loading or linear progression. The load selection is constant for the cycle.
The proportion of high mass low rep, medium mass medium rep, and low mass high rep varies across the twelve week cycles of BTS4 and 6.
If you're looking to get specifically stronger I would recommend taking a look at Victorious, which has a PlanStrong basis.
There are two plans. The second is somewhat similar to BTS but it incorporates a heavier bell towards the end of the 8 week cycle.
I have PR'd a new bell size after each run of Victorious I.
I've also considered swapping out the Press element of BTS for Victorious. However, I am currently enjoying the weekly pressing exercise variation of BTS4; barbell, kettlebell and bodyweight

 

[renegadenate]

Hi @renegadenate
The load doesn't vary like in step loading or linear progression. The load selection is constant for the cycle.

Ahhh. Okay, gotcha.

The proportion of high mass low rep, medium mass medium rep, and low mass high rep varies across the twelve week cycles of BTS4 and 6.

So it's still similar to BuiltStrong Minimalist in the set up and volume variability.

If you're looking to get specifically stronger I would recommend taking a look at Victorious, which has a PlanStrong basis.

I actually just purchased it with the discount offered during the Programming Demystified seminar. I haven't looked closely at the plan yet. But I may need to incorporate it in the near future.

There are two plans. The second is somewhat similar to BTS but it incorporates a heavier bell towards the end of the 8 week cycle.
I have PR'd a new bell size after each run of Victorious I.
I've also considered swapping out the Press element of BTS for Victorious. However, I am currently enjoying the weekly pressing exercise variation of BTS4; barbell, kettlebell and bodyweight

Niiiiiccceee!

I have loved BuiltStrong Minimalist, but I am interested in BTS4.

 

[Pete L]

Ahhh. Okay, gotcha.


So it's still similar to BuiltStrong Minimalist in the set up and volume variability.


I actually just purchased it with the discount offered during the Programming Demystified seminar. I haven't looked closely at the plan yet. But I may need to incorporate it in the near future.


Niiiiiccceee!

I have loved BuiltStrong Minimalist, but I am interested in BTS4.

Given your new schedule constraints you could train BTS4 exercise volumes using the BTS6 schedule. Same volume but fewer sets on each day. Though slow circuit approach may not be as practical.

 

[mar2safety]

I have loved BuiltStrong Minimalist, but I am interested in BTS4.

If you want some more variety, then you'll like BTS4. The volume waves like BuiltSrong Minimalist. My week is as such:

Day 1
heavy zercher squats
medium kb press
medium assisted ring chinups
light trap bar dl

Day 2
heavy kb press
heavy ring chinups
medium sumo deadlifts
light double kb front squats

Day 3
heavy trap bar dl
medium double kb front squats
light barbell military press
light kb rows

I had planned on running BuiltStrong Minimalist, then BTS4/BTS6 was released, which includes the hinge in the program. I absolutely love this 12 week program. Just finishing week 7 today.

 

[renegadenate]

If you want some more variety, then you'll like BTS4. The volume waves like BuiltSrong Minimalist. My week is as such:

Day 1
heavy zercher squats
medium kb press
medium assisted ring chinups
light trap bar dl

Day 2
heavy kb press
heavy ring chinups
medium sumo deadlifts
light double kb front squats

Day 3
heavy trap bar dl
medium double kb front squats
light barbell military press
light kb rows

I had planned on running BuiltStrong Minimalist, then BTS4/BTS6 was released, which includes the hinge in the program. I absolutely love this 12 week program. Just finishing week 7 today.

Awesome! I'm definitely interested in BTS4.

 

[Steve W.]

I had planned on running BuiltStrong Minimalist, then BTS4/BTS6 was released, which includes the hinge in the program.

I've been doing BTS3, supplemented with KB ballistic hinges (snatches and double cleans, using Q&D 044, or A+A/Axe).

I'd actually love to see a BTS5, with no hinge but the upper body horizontal/vertical split from BTS6. That way, I could supplement the BTS program with KB ballistics, like I can with BTS3, but with more variety in the push/pull drills, so I don't have to choose between MPs and dips or banded pushups, or between pullups and rows.

 

[mar2safety]

I've been doing BTS3, supplemented with KB ballistic hinges (snatches and double cleans, using Q&D 044, or A+A/Axe).

I'd actually love to see a BTS5, with no hinge but the upper body horizontal/vertical split from BTS6. That way, I could supplement the BTS program with KB ballistics, like I can with BTS3, but with more variety in the push/pull drills, so I don't have to choose between MPs and dips or banded pushups, or between pullups and rows.

You could plug in everything into the BTS6 planner, but leave the hinge out. The volumes would be the same. I absolutely love the planning spreadsheet that comes with the program. I just removed the hinge; and here is the schedule.


I considered BTS6, but the schedule is 4 days a week, vs. BTS4's 3 days a week. I respond well to 3 lifting days a week. I guess it may be possible to move things around into a three day schedule pulling out the hinge.

 

[Fabio Zonin]

Hi everyone!

-the Battleship
vs.
-the Excel generator from BtS Maximum
vs.
- a self written plan with the documents from the BtS seminar?

The Battleship allows one to pursue the plan for a long time while always complying to the delta-20 principle thanks to the roll of the die.
It also allows for great customization, as one can decide to train one or more movement patterns (I would say up to six) and can choose among several different weekly schedules. But it has a set volume that doesn't vary over time and it doesn't have a peaking phase.
I see it as a great choice for those who wish to become stronger and gain some muscles while solidifying their technique. It's also a good off-season hypertrophy plan for those who practice non related sports and wish to devote a few months building some strength and muscles.

BtS Maximum has a set duration of 12 weeks and has a peaking phase. There are three different volume options, which allows to choose the one that best fits the level of the athlete and the time they can devote to training. It can be run several times back to back, not only by selecting different exercises, but also by pressing the GO! button, which generates a plan based on different volume variants than the previous one. It is more advanced than the BtS 3 Minimalist version, which always uses the same volume variants. But one only has options for either four or six lifts, so it is not as customizable as the Battleship.

A self designed plan through the information and the worksheets provided at the seminar is IMO the best choice, as long as one has studied the material, made some experience in designing plans with the system, and is willing to invest some time in designing. It allows full customization, meaning that one can design plans that are tailored according to their level, schedule and goals.

But I am thinking about the big brother of the cruiser that‘s called the battleship. It was part of the Programming Demystified. There is also load variability (H/L/M days).

The Cruiser is actually a simplified version of the Battleship. There is no intensity variability, but only volume variability. The heavy, medium and light days differ not for the intensity (weights used), but for the volume and the effort (light days have lower reps per set than medium days and medium days have lower reps per set than heavy days). It is not as advanced and effective as the Battleship, but it does its job. My wife Alice has just completed it as she is very happy with the results she got. It has to be said that before that plan she hasn't been training consistently for a while and, in these cases, it is easier for a plan to provide good results.

I hope this helps!

 

[renegadenate]

Thank you for the information @Fabio Zonin

I'll be moving from BuiltStrong Minimalist to BTS4 and, eventually, Battleship.

 

[mar2safety]

The Battleship allows one to pursue the plan for a long time while always complying to the delta-20 principle thanks to the roll of the die.
It also allows for great customization, as one can decide to train one or more movement patterns (I would say up to six) and can choose among several different weekly schedules.

Can Battleship be run 2-days a week?

Would really like to know more about the Battleship! I've run BTS4 and I love it.