Kettlebell Tight hamstrings

[Karl]

In my 44 years I have never touched my toes. I did yoga for 6 months consistently and was about an inch from touching them, then I tweaked my lower back which put me back to 6 months previous. Since then I've just ignored my hamstrings.

S&s has made me realize I need to work on the 2 pieces of rebar I call hamstrings.

Any ideas other then stretching more, that hasn't helped much in the past.

Karl

 

[offwidth]

Welcome to SF Karl.
Have you ever had a FMS?

 

[Steve W.]

Here's something to try (it won't do a whole lot for someone with great flexibility, but often works dramatically well for those without):

Squat all the way down, rolling onto the balls of your feet.

Make fists and place your knuckles flat on the floor, outside your feet.

Keeping your knuckles pressed against the floor, extend your legs as far as you can and roll back onto your whole foot. Keep pushing with your legs for about 30 seconds, keeping your knuckles pressed into the floor the whole time.

Bend your legs and go back into a squat, then stand up.

Test your toe touch before and after and note any changes in the range of motion.

You can do this for multiple reps and throughout the day.

 

[The Nail]

The Downward Dog yoga pose helped me a lot! Tight hamstrings might actually be tight calves.

 

[Anna C]

Get "Relax Into Stretch" by Pavel.

I like Steve's stretch above, and downward dog.

My favorite stretch for the hamstrings is the 1-leg stretch as shown below... but don't round your back to reach your foot like this guy is doing. Keep your back straight and tip forward from the pelvis. You might only go forward a few inches; that's fine. You can use a strap or belt around your foot to help pull you forward gently. Wait out the tension... give it time. 1 minute or more, take a break, try again. BREATHE. Move a few millimeters forward on the exhale.

 

[Brett Jones]

Karl
Where are you located?
having "tight hamstrings" is one thing but knowing why they are tight and what to do about them is another

Lets see if we can get you hooked up with an instructor that can help "filter" the issue (if there is one)

 

[Inky]

As someone has said above, tight calves will not help. Neither will a tight lower back. If you are a desk jockey, that will not help. I thought I had tight hamstrings (probably do), but I know my lower back is tight along with my calves and they prevent several moves.......

 

[North Coast Miller]

I like to drop into a low deadlift posture till I run out of space at the hinge, and just relax there. Also I do bear squats/boot strappers and hold at the top for a few.

I find any time I'm stretching I get a lot more out of it if I "time" my stretch to my breathing. Count breaths instead of seconds, relax into the stretch on the exhale, ease up on the inhale, try to relax a little deeper with each exhale - avoid the stretch reflex kicking in.

And all the usual - avoid too much stretching immediately prior to resistance training, stretch only when the muscles and core are warmed up.

 

[Michael Scott]

Like, @Karl, I also can barely get my hands farther than my knees, although I have reached mid-shin lately. With the exception of HS gym class where gymnastics was being taught, I have never touched my toes. I know it is the result of a pretty substantial lack of flexibility. I have been doing the kettlebell good morning stretch in the "4 weeks to Flexible Steel". That seems to work pretty good. The goblet squats have also worked pretty good so far in increasing my flexibility. This however.....:

Here's something to try (it won't do a whole lot for someone with great flexibility, but often works dramatically well for those without):

Squat all the way down, rolling onto the balls of your feet.

Make fists and place your knuckles flat on the floor, outside your feet.

Keeping your knuckles pressed against the floor, extend your legs as far as you can and roll back onto your whole foot. Keep pushing with your legs for about 30 seconds, keeping your knuckles pressed into the floor the whole time.

Bend your legs and go back into a squat, then stand up.

Test your toe touch before and after and note any changes in the range of motion.

You can do this for multiple reps and throughout the day.

I am sorry @Steve W., but this sounds about impossible to me. I am not even sure I could get my knuckles onto the ground.

 

[North Coast Miller]

You can do that stretch with your hands on a footstool or the handle of a heavy kettlebell, edge of a chair. The description is very similar to the bear squats I use.

 

[Steve W.]

I am sorry @Steve W., but this sounds about impossible to me. I am not even sure I could get my knuckles onto the ground.

You start by squatting all the way down, on the balls of your feet with your feet together, with hamstrings resting against calves and leaning forward with your chest against your thighs, basically a cannonball position. I haven't encountered anyone who can't put their knuckles on the ground in this position -- but if you can't, @North Coast Miller's suggestion to use some elevation sounds like it should work. Even a couple of books stacked under your knuckles might work.

You can also do it with your feet farther apart (toes turned out as much as necessary) and your arms inside your thighs (as if you were preparing to do a frog stand).

The idea is that your feet and hands are in the end position of a deep toe touch (beyond fingertips on the ground), although your body is all folded up so you can reach the ground. When you push with your legs, you won't be able to straighten them fully because you don't have the flexibility to do so in that position. This is why it doesn't have as big an effect on people with great flexibility -- they can already just bend over and put their knuckles on the floor with straight legs.

The force of your quads trying to straighten the legs puts tension on the hamstrings in a stretched position. When you release the stretch by squatting down again before standing up, the hamstrings relax.

It's just a tricky way of using a contract/relax contrast method, but the fact that the hands and feet are both fixed and supported in position seems to give it a more dramatic and immediate effect than most other stretches I've tried or used with others. I've had people go from barely being able to touch below knee level to touching their toes in one session using this drill.

My best guess is that your nervous system subconsciously feels safe in this position and allows the hamstrings to relax. Whereas in a lot of other stretches, the end range of the stretch feels subconsciously threatening and your nervous system resists allowing an increased range of motion.

 

[Michael Scott]

When I get home tonight, I will give this a try. Thank you for the explanation.

You start by squatting all the way down, on the balls of your feet with your feet together, with hamstrings resting against calves and leaning forward with your chest against your thighs, basically a cannonball position. I haven't encountered anyone who can't put their knuckles on the ground in this position -- but if you can't, @North Coast Miller's suggestion to use some elevation sounds like it should work. Even a couple of books stacked under your knuckles might work.

You can also do it with your feet farther apart (toes turned out as much as necessary) and your arms inside your thighs (as if you were preparing to do a frog stand).

The idea is that your feet and hands are in the end position of a deep toe touch (beyond fingertips on the ground), although your body is all folded up so you can reach the ground. When you push with your legs, you won't be able to straighten them fully because you don't have the flexibility to do so in that position. This is why it doesn't have as big an effect on people with great flexibility -- they can already just bend over and put their knuckles on the floor with straight legs.

The force of your quads trying to straighten the legs puts tension on the hamstrings in a stretched position. When you release the stretch by squatting down again before standing up, the hamstrings relax.

It's just a tricky way of using a contract/relax contrast method, but the fact that the hands and feet are both fixed and supported in position seems to give it a more dramatic and immediate effect than most other stretches I've tried or used with others. I've had people go from barely being able to touch below knee level to touching their toes in one session using this drill.

My best guess is that your nervous system subconsciously feels safe in this position and allows the hamstrings to relax. Whereas in a lot of other stretches, the end range of the stretch feels subconsciously threatening and your nervous system resists allowing an increased range of motion.

 

[King Cobra Fit]

@Karl welcome to the forum.

I would listen (and Trust) what @Brett Jones has to say. there are many factors that contribute to the "tight hamstring" paradox. a combination of mobility/stability/motor control comes into play. Knowing where the issue actually is will save you time, money and risk of injury. get yourself assessed by a physio, chiro or other therapist or check out the functionalmovement.com site and find an FMS specialist near you and get a movement screen done. There is also the option of on-line screenings if you are stuck. reach out on this thread if that is the case.

moving through different stretches is not a bad idea (as long as you're staying out of painful range of motion) but is ultimately "carpet bombing" the issue where as having a screen done and attacking the actually issue would be a "precision strike". One is much more effective than the other, and likely why you didn't see a quick/significant change through things like yoga IMHO.

Not the popular answer but the right one if you actually want to make a change. (again, just my opinion)

 

[rickyw]

Tight hamstrings are often (but not always) from lower crossed syndrome. You can stretch all day but if your pelvis is imbalanced your hamstrings will tighten right back up again after a few hours.

Proper abdominal bracing and maintaining a neutral pelvis will often immediately increase hamstring length where stretching fails.

 

[Karl]

Thank you everyone for all the input, it is greatly appreciated. It would be nice to figure this out. Everyone I see touching there toes after a work pt comment on how good and relaxing it is to stretch. I find hamstring stretches to be painfully and rather uncomfortable. I've tried to push through but it doesn't help

@offwidth - I have not tried any fms or looked for someone trained in it, although I have been meaning to look into it. This is probably a good reason to follow through since you, @King Cobra Fit , and others have pointed it out.

@Steve W. - that seems like a good active warmup i should add to my s&s warmup. I will give it a try.

@Brett Jones - I live in Klamath falls Oregon, there are some SFG's within an hour or two of me, Medford and bend Oregon. I will try to go visit them this fall after fire season, I'm on lock down until October. I have been texting with Zar Horton regarding firefighter work capacity training though.

@King Cobra Fit - I will be trying to find an FMS trainer this fall, I've been carpet bombing for years and I'm yet to be effective.

@rickyw - I did work on bracing my abdomin while stretching last winter and it seemed to help a bit. To be honest I forgot about doing so, thanks for reminding me.

Karl

 

[Karl]

@Anna C - I will get a copy of relax into the stretch, I've seen it referenced many times on the forum. Thank ypu for your input.

Karl

 

[rickyw]

@Karl , become an abdominal breather if you are not already and make a neutral pelvis your habitual posture and your hamstrings will do even better

 

[Bauer]

Thank you everyone for all the input, it is greatly appreciated. It would be nice to figure this out. Everyone I see touching there toes after a work pt comment on how good and relaxing it is to stretch. I find hamstring stretches to be painfully and rather uncomfortable. I've tried to push through but it doesn't help

@Karl : I feel your pain... I am pretty tight in moste directions. Most stretches are very uncomfortable and I can hardly find a stable start position.

The 90/90 hip stretch used to be liked this. After a couple months (2 or 3) it started to change. Aftert about 6 months it started to get somewhat comfortable. I started the 90/90 prior to S+S, as part of GMBs Focused Flexibility course and inspired by some FRC vids. Nowadays I actually find the 90/90 relieving!

But the Straddle QL stretch is horrible for me. I try to be patient and get my way through the first hard months (I have to sit on a stool, bent my legs and hold onto something).

Some things I have learned:
- Spend time finding the sweet spot of tension and relaxation. Do it like you would do and S+S session: Somewhat challenging, but rather recharching. You should be able to do it again the next day. Sometimes, when you feel like it, push more.
- On most days, don't push that much! As others have noted: Work with the rhythm of your breath. Relax on the exhale (it might help to consciously relax your jaw and fists - and in some positions I like to wiggle a bit). Don't stretch in a crossfit mindset... it's a marathon and not a sprint.
- Spend more than 2 minutes in a position. I like to listen to the Beatles when I stretch, as a lot of their earlier songs are pretty short.
- Because this takes time: Only do 2-3 stretches per day. Maybe 4-6 total. But really focus on the most important stuff for two months or so. 80/20!
- Personally I vary my stretching style a bit. Mostly I contract on the inhale. Contracting might mean pushing away from the stretched position, pulling my self into the stretched position - or trying to stay in the stretch position without the help of hands or props. This trains your end range strength. Some people obsess about this range. In FRC you will work reeeeally hard. It works, but it is a pain (at least for me, most of the time). Sometimes I just relax for some breaths and try to let go.
- Your CNS must be sure, that you can control the stretched ROM, so you need to be able to breath pretty normally and to exert some strength there.
- I like to do foam rolling after (!) stretching. I am often quite tense from stretching, since even the basic positions are uncomfortable and since I like to strengthen my end rang. Some foam rolling helps me to relax.
- After stretching have fun! Play around and move! I love the yoga style of Michael Mike Taylor from Strala yoga. Just explore and be soft. If you do S+S you'll have plenty hardstyle and tensing in your movement anyway.


And for the toe touch thing: You might google Gray Cook Toe Touch. There are some helpful tips about shifting weight on the heels and so forth.

This is just my experience - although I am by no means an expert.

-B-

 

[Karl]

@rickyw - guess I need to do some reading on the old interwebs, I have no idea what a neutral pelvis position should be. Luckily I played the trombone and baritone through college, abdominal breathing comes natural to me.

@Bauer - I will look into grey cooks stuff, thank you for the input.

 

[Oscar]

@Steve W. - that seems like a good active warmup i should add to my s&s warmup. I will give it a try

This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. The stretch suggested by @Steve W is with a bent lower back, which I understand is a bad idea before S&S. I think it says so in the book