Kettlebell Training Help

[Suggy3001]

Hello all

First time poster but I have been through the forum over the last few weeks and learnt a lot. Nice to come to such a polite and helpful place

Some quick basic info - I'm 36, 5'6, about 195 lbs, probably about 20% body fat.

Background in contact field sports but these have dropped off over the last few years, I had a few hamstring and groin injuries but these mainly came from sprinting flat out, which is a rarity these days. My left elbow is a little vunerable to hyperextension. I also had a solid 'normal' gym background and was at 2xBW deadlift, 1.5bw bench, 1.5Bw squat about 10 years ago. I struggled with the squat because my flexibility was not good and heavy squats to parallel caused my groin to flare up.

The only other training I do currently is fence once a week for about 2.5-3 hours which I would class as intense stretching and dynamic CV work. The stretching has helped my flexibility a lot. I don't work in the fitness industry or compete in much at the moment I am just an enthusiast!

I have a full range of KBs up to 40, but only 2 of the 24kbs.

Current training levels

Warm up
20-40 body weight squats
heavy haloes - about 15 circles each way with the 24kg (not seen anyone reference this is this wrong!)

Session 1
5x5 ladders shoulder press with the 36kg bell - been doing this for about 3 months and just started to introduce the 40, my left arm (I'm right handed) has struggled getting the initial lift with the 40 which is annoying.

DKBFS - 3x8 with the 24kg bells.

Session 2
Sets of 10 2H swing with the 40kg bell. This ranges from 5 to 7 sets at the moment.
Ancillary core work, grip work, some benching.

I alternate these two and probably end up doing 3 sessions a week plus the fencing, plus random stretching watching TV etc.

For a period I also had TGUs in the second session but I have not done these for a while. I successfully did 10 reps (5 each side) with the 36kg bell just before I cycled these out.

I just had a go at 1h swings and did 10x10 with the 24kg in a little over 6 minutes.

Goals

I would like to achieve the following (in no particular order) in 12 months time - is this possible?

1. A reduction in BF to below 15%. I know that diet is a key component but not sure the above is enough volume to influence?
2. The solid goals - 100 1H swings with the 40 and 10 TGUs straight after.
3. A 5x5 ladder with the 40.
4. The SS snatch test 200 snatches in 10 minutes with the 24.
5. A pistol squat with the 40.

I feel like if I hit those I would be very happy, but I am concerned that a) I am not currently training 3 of them and b) they will require specific adaption which means once I hit one goal I will have to cycle off, whereas really I am looking for all round performance that can be maintained, and a simple programme to get me there.

Thanks for reading

Suggy

 

[Steve Freides]

@Suggy3001, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

-S-

 

[offwidth]

Welcome...

 

[manuelp22]

I would like to achieve the following (in no particular order) in 12 months time - is this possible? (...)
I feel like if I hit those I would be very happy (...)

What program are you doing now?
You mention your workouts, but not the progression model and other nuances.
It would be very helpful to know.

about 195 lbs, probably about 20% body fat. to A reduction in BF to below 15%

So around 185lb., a reduction of 10lb.
The biggest issue in this goal is that you're estimating on your guess of what you weigh,
and what your BF% is.

1lb. / week is achievable with correct diet.

BF% is an extremely vague measure, even with calipers.
I'd avoid that and stick to measurements and pictures.
This goal cannot be calculated, maybe you need to lose 20, 30 or 50 pounds.
Or maybe just 5.
It's a big unknown.

I am looking for all round performance that can be maintained, and a simple programme to get me there.

You most definitely will need to cycle different programs to achieve your goals.

7 X 10 Swings with 2 hands at 40kg. to 100 1H swings (btw, do you mean 10 X 10 ?) with the 40 and 10 TGUs straight after.
5 X 5 Press at 36kg. to A 5x5 ladder with the 40.
Unknown SS Snatch test to 200 snatches in 10 minutes with the 24.
Unknown pistol squat to A pistol squat with the 40.

Achieving just one of your goals during the period of 12 months is already very respectable and a great achievement.
Going after all of them in 12 months seems unfeasible.

What programs have you tried so far?

 

[Suggy3001]

Thanks for the welcome Steve and offwidth.

Thanks for the response manuelp. Good questions and points.

In terms of the workouts and progressions, I haven't had to do it too scientifically.

The shoulder presses I started with triple ladders (1x, ,2x, 3x) on the 24, worked up until a 5x5 ladder then upped the weight. I was previously working with 36kg dumbells so a lot of this strength is probably just returning, it's proving much more challenging to jump from the 36 to the 40. So my intention is to add in the 40 for the singles and doubles until I could reasonably jump to a 3x3 ladder and then add volume. Last work out was 1x36, 2x36, 3x36, 4x36, 5x36, 1x40, 2x36, 3x36, 4x36, 5x36, 1x40, 2x40, 3x36, 4x36,5x36, 1x40, 2x40, 3x36, 4x36, 5x36 - I would normally have done a fifth set but felt a bit gassed by adding the heavier weight. So when I could do 1x40, 2x40, 3x40 I would aim for 5 of those and move up from the 36 totally.

With the swings, I just add ten swings every workout I do until I do 10x10, this worked up until the 40 but the straight line improvement has not worked at this jump. I did 12x10 with the 36 before moving up, using the 40 my last 4 workouts have been 5x10 swings, 6x10 swings, 7x10 swings, then for some reason I could only manage 4x10 swings. My goal was to hit 10x10 with the 40 then drop across to 1H swings and basically follow the same protocol from the 24 up to hopefully, the 40 (yes to answer your question 100 meant 10x10).

Although I have both PTTP and S&S I have not religiously followed them, just adapted my own understanding.

My weight and bodyfat do vary a reasonable amount, on any given day I can weight between 190-195 and look either slightly flabby or relatively lean so without being scientifically measured this is as good a guess as I can manage, realistically I would like to get down to 180 but I do feel like the heavy presses have added muscle bulk so maybe my target should shift upwards accordingly.

Do you think there would be a programme that would increase my general ability to get close to these goals before specific adaption was required? I have found that the shoulder presses have a good carryover to the TGUs and vice versa, I have not noticed great transition from the swing to the snatch.

 

[manuelp22]

then for some reason I could only manage 4x10 swing

Did you perhaps miss a day, or had a less than average sleep, or changed the workout time of that day?
If everything was Ok, it sounds like you were doing too much volume, or under-recovering.

Vladimir Zatsiorsky determined that an athlete’s “preparedness” (characterized by the athlete’s potential sport performance) varies with time.
The two-factor theory is based on the idea that there are two components of the athlete’s preparedness:
(1) fitness (considered the slow-changing component) and,
(2) fatigue (both mental and physical; considered the fast-changing component).

In other words,
fitness is a fairly stable variable that may not change substantially over a period of minutes, hours, or days
(i.e., it is harder to change but once it is increased or decreased it can remain stable for a period of days or weeks).

However, the physical and mental stressors involved in a sport season can quickly result in an increase in fatigue and,
with fatigue being the fast changing variable influencing athlete preparedness,
quickly decrease an athlete’s level of preparedness.

The general rule of thumb is that the effects of fatigue from an average training session (e.g., practice, conditioning) dis- appear approximately 24 hours after the training session and the positive effects of fitness last for approximately 72 hours (Warren, Lowe, & Armstrong, 1999; Zatsiorsky & Kraemer, 2006).

---

Do you think there would be a programme that would increase my general ability to get close to these goals before specific adaption was required?

Soju and Toba might interest you. Press specialization program, but you could also do Press + Squat.
Upgrade Your Strength with the Soju and Tuba Press Program

Dan John's 40 day program in any variation might be useful for you.
It's so low volume that it will reset your press strength since you're doing quite a lot already with 5 X 5 ladders.
It would cover:
- Pistol Squat
- Press
- Swing OR Snatch
- Pull (pull-ups, rows, whatever)
- Core (TGU, Ab-wheel rollouts, leg-raises...)

The Forty Day Workout…Again
Even Easier Strength

It is deceptive in that it feels "too easy", and yet it breaks Strength PRs.
Since you have become stuck in progress, doing this program for 40 days could very well "reboot" your recovery and gains potential.

 

[305pelusa]

Just a couple of thoughts as far as body composition.

Some quick basic info - I'm 36, 5'6, about 195 lbs, probably about 20% body fat.

At 5'6'' and 195 lbs, you're either a very muscular 20% BF, or you're heavily under-estimating your BF. Obviously the exact number doesn't matter, but I just bring it up because if you are in fact underestimating (and are perhaps closer to 35% BF), then it might be worthwhile to focus on the weight loss first. Not that BMI matters a lot to populations who strength train, but you're in the obese range. Based on your info, you seem pretty fit so I think you can lose weight quickly. You seem a very disciplined and motivated individual.

1. A reduction in BF to below 15%. I know that diet is a key component but not sure the above is enough volume to influence?

Getting sub 15% BF is a commendable goal. That's the point where you finally see a bit of definition, and it's a very healthy and sustainable level of BF. That seems to me like a smart health and fitness goal.

I think the volume you're doing currently is fine so I would consider entering a caloric deficit and start losing weight. If you have, say, 35 lbs of fat to lose to get to 15% BF, then a year is about right to get there as long as you're diligent.

Good luck man.

 

[Jan]

@Suggy3001 : Welcome to the forum

 

[Suggy3001]

Did you perhaps miss a day, or had a less than average sleep, or changed the workout time of that day?

Funnily enough yes, this workout was late afternoon, most I do mid-late morning which is when I feel strongest. Unfortunately life gets in the way sometimes maybe I should have a backup lighter workout for when I get pushed out.

Soju and Toba might interest you. Press specialization program, but you could also do Press + Squat.
Upgrade Your Strength with the Soju and Tuba Press Program

Dan John's 40 day program in any variation might be useful for you.
It's so low volume that it will reset your press strength since you're doing quite a lot already with 5 X 5 ladders.
It would cover:
- Pistol Squat
- Press
- Swing OR Snatch
- Pull (pull-ups, rows, whatever)
- Core (TGU, Ab-wheel rollouts, leg-raises...)

The Forty Day Workout…Again
Even Easier Strength

The Soju and Tuba Press Program looks very low volume for working below max weight. The 40 day workout looks more to my taste, although one of the reasons I love KBs is the simplicity of just having 2-4 exercises on rinse and repeat. Thanks for the suggestions

Hi Pelusa

At 5'6'' and 195 lbs, you're either a very muscular 20% BF, or you're heavily under-estimating your BF

Lol my wife just called me out on this - looking at pics she reckons I am more like 25% + but below 30%. I am stocky and muscular but hiding it well

Based on your info, you seem pretty fit so I think you can lose weight quickly. You seem a very disciplined and motivated individual.

Thanks man - I am disciplined in most areas but diet is not one of them, the best way I have found to lose fat for me is long slowish cardio which does not go well with strength training. I could probably do 10k run at a lowish pace so not 'unfit'.

Welcome to the forum

Thanks Jan