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Weighted Parallel Bar Dips

Spirit198

Level 1 Valued Member
Weighted Parallel Bar Dips is really good exercise if mobility of your shoulders allows you to doe it, many have opinion that is unhealty for shoulders and that you can get injured which is true if done inappropriately (going to deep is often a reason, tears of rotator cuff muscles and tendions) but in my expirience is great for upper body strength, people this days using even 200kg+ for dips.
It have great carryover to bench press strength its not same movement but same muscles are working, many people like Pat Casey the 'godfather of powerlifting' he was the first man to Bench 600# , Squat 800# and Total 2000# was famous for his dips protocols which are on internet even this days.
In my workouts i did low or high volume and low or high intensity, dead start concentric only for starting strength, eccentric(fast or slow/concentric with SSC, eccentric with supramaximal weights for hipertrophy and strength, long (endurance, iso strength, hipertrophy) and intesive short isometrics ( maximal overcoming using supramaximal weight that cant be lifted get in position and push), body weight plyometrics ( explosive letting of bar for power), loaded stretching EQI with body weight and added weight.

What is your thoughts on dips do you use it?
What is your ratio between dips and bench press?
I think there is no deceleration phase in dips like in BP so muscles are active trough whole ROM but cant finde much reasrche about dips, does somebody knows where can be found or have it so can writte?
 
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I never liked dips until I figured out to pike my body so my head and feet are forward, like doing a dip on a single bar. That was gentle on my shoulders and the motion felt like a heavy push-up.

TBH I prefer close-grip push-ups, but I can see why dips are so popular.
 
Spirit198 said:
Weighted Parallel Bar Dips is really good exercise if mobility of your shoulders allows you to doe it, many have opinion that is unhealty for shoulders and that you can get injured which is true if done inappropriately (going to deep is often a reason, tears of rotator cuff muscles and tendions) but in my expirience is great for upper body strength, people this days using even 200kg+ for dips.
It have great carryover to bench press strength its not same movement but same muscles are working, many people like Pat Casey the 'godfather of powerlifting' he was the first man to Bench 600# , Squat 800# and Total 2000# was famous for his dips protocols which are on internet even this days.
In my workouts i did low or high volume and low or high intensity, dead start concentric only for starting strength, eccentric(fast or slow/concentric with SSC, eccentric with supramaximal weights for hipertrophy and strength, long (endurance, iso strength, hipertrophy) and intesive short isometrics ( maximal overcoming using supramaximal weight that cant be lifted get in position and push), body weight plyometrics ( explosive letting of bar for power), loaded stretching EQI with body weight and added weight.

What is your thoughts on dips do you use it?
What is your ratio between dips and bench press?
I think there is no deceleration phase in dips like in BP so muscles are active trough whole ROM but cant finde much reasrche about dips, does somebody knows where can be found or have it so can writte?
Click to expand...
My max bench is 110 kg
My max dips is 85 kg
Bdw is around 77-78 kg
I don't think it helps my bench directly.
 
I love dips. Always have. Always will. Maybe because of all the heavy pressing exercises, I was always pretty strong at them.

My best set was with 52 kgs at a BW of around 75 kgs for a set of five. Bench probably around 110 kgs as well.

Like @Hung , I don’t think they have direct carryover to my bench press, although his dip is far better than mine, our benches are similar. I could not train for a few months and my bench would disintegrate while my dip would return quickly as if it had just taken a smoke break.

However, they do build my upper body muscles effectively which helps the bench. The spinal decompression aspect is also valuable hence why when the press was a contested lift, weightlifters performed them often.
 
Spirit198 said:
What is your thoughts on dips do you use it?
Click to expand...
Dips

They are a great exercise.

No worry about getting stuck in the bottom position, as in a Bench Press, and needing a Spotter.

Eccentric Dip Training

One of the benefits is that Eccentric Dips can be trained without a Spotter, as well.

Auxiliary Bench Press Exercise

They are a great Auxiliary Exercise for the Bench Press.

As you noted, Pat Casey used Dips to increase his Bench Press.

Also, the Bench Press is a great Auxiliary for increasing Dip Strength.

Spirit198 said:
I think there is no deceleration phase in dips like in BP so muscles are active trough whole ROM
Click to expand...
Ascending Strength Curve

Dip are an Ascending Strength Curve Movement.

Ascending Strength Curve Movements are hard at the bottom and easier as you ascend, drive up.

As with all Pressing Movements (Bench Press, Decline Press, Incline Press, Shoulder Press) the Sticking Point is approximately in the first one third of the Movement. This is true of all Ascending Strength Curve Movements.

There isn't much acceleration in the first one third of these Pressing Movement.

In driving out of the bottom of these Movement, approximately 3-4 inches up, Deceleration occurs.

Eventually, the Deceleration in the first one third of the Movement leads to No Movement; the Sticking Point.

Take Home Message

1) Dips share the same Ascending Strength Curve as the Bench Press. The same characteristic applies; Slow to no Movement in the bottom part of the Movement, where the Sticking Point occurs and the Movement cannot be completed.

Overcoming Ascending Pressing Strength Curve Movement

This means Dips, Bench Press, Decline Press, Incline Press, Shoulder Press...

1) Stretch Reflex Training

Training and Development of the Stretch Reflex in the bottom part of these Movements.

Research show that up to 18% more Force Production is produce in a Stretch Reflex Movement; dependent on the Load.

Thus, Pressing Movement in which an individual "Recoils out of the Hole" (bottom part of the Movement) in a any of these Pressing Movement develop the Stretch Reflex, increasing Force Production.

2) Increasing Maximum Strength In The Bottom Position

a) Performing Partial Movement from the bottom part of the Movement to approximately one third of the way of with Dips, Bench Press, Decline Press, Shoulder Press...

b) Functional Isometric Training

This is a Partial Movement usually performed out of a Power Rack.

Pins are position in the bottom part of a movement, like the Bench Press.

Another set of Pins is positioned approximately 3 inches higher in the Rack.

You then Bench Press the bar from the bottom chest position up to the higher Pin and performing about a 3 second Isometric into the top pin.

Progressive Loading with this method is used,

c) Traditional Isometrics

The same application as with Functional Isometrics by not progressive weight loading.

d) Performing Heavy Partial Bench Press Load from the chest to approximately one third of the way up.

Performing this with Dips would be every effective. You can train this to the point of failure without needing a Spotter.
 
I loved them. Many years back as an active duty LEO the weighted Dip became my go to pressing movement because I trained at my department's basement gym very often without a spotter. Got quite strong. Gained significant upper body mass in the shoulders and arms and what surprised me was the traps/yoke thickness.

They worked really well.

Until they didn't. Shoulders pain. Bad pain.

Gave up resistance training and became a "cardio bunny".

Got back into resistance training with kettlebells and focused on overhead work.

In the past year and a half I got away from kettlebell training but have recently returned. I started using one of those Planet Fitness dip assist machines and had worked my way back up to weighted dips using significantly less weight than I used to and focused on form. I also limited the amount of volume with them too as I'm pushing 60 so this is now of major importance! Certainly not going to set any street lifting records!

It's a great movement for sure but from personal experience I just say approach with common sense. All others' mileage may vary.
 
John Grahill said:
They worked really well.

Until they didn't. Shoulders pain. Bad pain.
Click to expand...
Shoulder Pain

The bottom part of Dips can place a lot of stress on the shoulders due the loading.

I had a minor shoulder issue year ago from Bench Pressing, that has pretty much been resolved.

Before getting into how you might be able to train Dips again, let's look at how to minimize Shoulder issues with the Bench Press.

Post 48 breaks this down...

Barbell - Bench

Just to be clear, this isn't a measure of muscle activation. This is a measure of hypertrophy. And hypertrophy outcomes, annoyingly, aren't 1:1 correlated with EMG muscle activation. Interesting! So it’s possible for a muscle to grow via an exercise that doesn’t work that muscle?! How on...
www.strongfirst.com

Another Resolution

Mark Bell's Sling Shot might allow you to perform Dips again.

Accommodating Resistance Training

This means attaching Band and/or Chain to an Ascending Strength Curve Movement, like Dips, Bench Press, etc.

Doing so, allows the Movement to be OverLoaded in a greater Range of the Movement; decreasing loading at the weaker bottom position and increased Loading at the stronger top end position.

The Sling Shot

The Sling Shot provides the same Accommodating Loading.

Thus, in performing Dips, the Sling Shot minimizes that Loading at the bottom part of the movement; decreasing the stress placed on the shoulders. As you Ascending in the Concentric Contraction it increased the Loading in the stronger part of the Dip, Bench Press, etc.



Additional Shoulder Recovery Movements

The Anterior Deltoid is often OverTrained, as in my case performing a lot of Pressing.

one of the keys to maintaining Anterior Deltoid health is Performing Posterior Deltoid Exercises. I thought I was doing enough but I was not.

Baseball Pitcher Research

Research has demonstrated that the longevity of Pitchers to a large extent has to do with their External Rotator Cuff Strength.

Pitchers with weaker External Cuff Muscle usually had shorter careers.

Strong External Rotator Cuff Muscles offset the stress placed on the Anterior Shoulders.

As per Chris Thibaudeau, more Posterior Deltoid Exercises are usually necessary to ensure Anterior Deltoid health.

Exercise like Face Pulls, Exterior Rotator Cuff with a Shoulder Horn, and the Kettlebell Halo are some of the most effective for me.

Shoulder Horn Video Demo



Not much weight can be used with the External Shoulder Horn Movement.
 
Kenny Croxdale said:
Shoulder Pain

The bottom part of Dips can place a lot of stress on the shoulders due the loading.

I had a minor shoulder issue year ago from Bench Pressing, that has pretty much been resolved.

Before getting into how you might be able to train Dips again, let's look at how to minimize Shoulder issues with the Bench Press.

Post 48 breaks this down...

Barbell - Bench

Just to be clear, this isn't a measure of muscle activation. This is a measure of hypertrophy. And hypertrophy outcomes, annoyingly, aren't 1:1 correlated with EMG muscle activation. Interesting! So it’s possible for a muscle to grow via an exercise that doesn’t work that muscle?! How on...
www.strongfirst.com

Another Resolution

Mark Bell's Sling Shot might allow you to perform Dips again.

Accommodating Resistance Training

This means attaching Band and/or Chain to an Ascending Strength Curve Movement, like Dips, Bench Press, etc.

Doing so, allows the Movement to be OverLoaded in a greater Range of the Movement; decreasing loading at the weaker bottom position and increased Loading at the stronger top end position.

The Sling Shot

The Sling Shot provides the same Accommodating Loading.

Thus, in performing Dips, the Sling Shot minimizes that Loading at the bottom part of the movement; decreasing the stress placed on the shoulders. As you Ascending in the Concentric Contraction it increased the Loading in the stronger part of the Dip, Bench Press, etc.



Additional Shoulder Recovery Movements

The Anterior Deltoid is often OverTrained, as in my case performing a lot of Pressing.

one of the keys to maintaining Anterior Deltoid health is Performing Posterior Deltoid Exercises. I thought I was doing enough but I was not.

Baseball Pitcher Research

Research has demonstrated that the longevity of Pitchers to a large extent has to do with their External Rotator Cuff Strength.

Pitchers with weaker External Cuff Muscle usually had shorter careers.

Strong External Rotator Cuff Muscles offset the stress placed on the Anterior Shoulders.

As per Chris Thibaudeau, more Posterior Deltoid Exercises are usually necessary to ensure Anterior Deltoid health.

Exercise like Face Pulls, Exterior Rotator Cuff with a Shoulder Horn, and the Kettlebell Halo are some of the most effective for me.

Shoulder Horn Video Demo



Not much weight can be used with the External Shoulder Horn Movement.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Kenny Croxdale !
 
Spirit198 said:
What is your thoughts on dips do you use it?
Click to expand...

If memory serves, Pavel mentions them as something he tried when trying out movements for The Quick and The Dead.

Dips are, for some people who for reasons of injury cannot press overhead, the closest thing to a press they can do, so they're useful for that, too.

"Do you use it?" No. I consider myself a novice bench presser and a poor one at that, so when I am training my bench press, which is usually only when I have a meet coming up, I just bench press. Lifetime best is 87.5 kg (193 lb) at bodyweight 67.5 kg (148 lb), raw as an M65-69. When I'm trying to build a little muscle for my BP, after working up to a heavy single, I do backoff sets w/ about 80% of the heavy single's weight, inspired by the Bear program in PTTP. For lifters below a certain skill level, which includes me on the BP, I think just doing the thing itself a lot is the best approach.

-S-
 
Spirit198 said:
What is your thoughts on dips do you use it?
Click to expand...
I like dips.
Spirit198 said:
What is your ratio between dips and bench press?
Click to expand...
I can dip and bench about the same. Which isn't much, but dips keep me at about a bodyweight bench without benching.
Spirit198 said:
I think there is no deceleration phase in dips like in BP so muscles are active trough whole ROM but cant finde much reasrche about dips, does somebody knows where can be found or have it so can writte?
Click to expand...
There's almost always a deceleration phase, unless you're doing a ballistic or plyometric like jump, throw, or swing. But perhaps what you mean by "deceleration phase" is different than what I understand, so clarification may be needed. My understanding is that there is a necessary slowing between the stretch and shortening. With something like a throw or a jump, this is minimized. I do not see a dip as minimizing this relative to a bench press, as both start at the top, go through the stretch, and then slow, stop, and begin to contract.

Here is some recent research looking at bench, bar, and ring dips. They even have a nice little flow chart.

Bench, Bar, and Ring Dips: Do Kinematics and Muscle Activity Differ?

I would not suggest bench dips as a "regression" for dips as I think due to the levers it places a lot of strain on the shoulder due to the extreme shoulder extension, which they mention in the discussion; however, they believe the lower load ameliorates that. You'll notice muscle elctromyography - for whatever that is worth - was similar for ring and bar dips, but generally lower for bench dips. I am not surprised by that.
 
Kenny Croxdale said:
Shoulder Pain

The bottom part of Dips can place a lot of stress on the shoulders due the loading.

I had a minor shoulder issue year ago from Bench Pressing, that has pretty much been resolved.

Before getting into how you might be able to train Dips again, let's look at how to minimize Shoulder issues with the Bench Press.

Post 48 breaks this down...

Barbell - Bench

Just to be clear, this isn't a measure of muscle activation. This is a measure of hypertrophy. And hypertrophy outcomes, annoyingly, aren't 1:1 correlated with EMG muscle activation. Interesting! So it’s possible for a muscle to grow via an exercise that doesn’t work that muscle?! How on...
www.strongfirst.com

Another Resolution

Mark Bell's Sling Shot might allow you to perform Dips again.

Accommodating Resistance Training

This means attaching Band and/or Chain to an Ascending Strength Curve Movement, like Dips, Bench Press, etc.

Doing so, allows the Movement to be OverLoaded in a greater Range of the Movement; decreasing loading at the weaker bottom position and increased Loading at the stronger top end position.

The Sling Shot

The Sling Shot provides the same Accommodating Loading.

Thus, in performing Dips, the Sling Shot minimizes that Loading at the bottom part of the movement; decreasing the stress placed on the shoulders. As you Ascending in the Concentric Contraction it increased the Loading in the stronger part of the Dip, Bench Press, etc.



Additional Shoulder Recovery Movements

The Anterior Deltoid is often OverTrained, as in my case performing a lot of Pressing.

one of the keys to maintaining Anterior Deltoid health is Performing Posterior Deltoid Exercises. I thought I was doing enough but I was not.

Baseball Pitcher Research

Research has demonstrated that the longevity of Pitchers to a large extent has to do with their External Rotator Cuff Strength.

Pitchers with weaker External Cuff Muscle usually had shorter careers.

Strong External Rotator Cuff Muscles offset the stress placed on the Anterior Shoulders.

As per Chris Thibaudeau, more Posterior Deltoid Exercises are usually necessary to ensure Anterior Deltoid health.

Exercise like Face Pulls, Exterior Rotator Cuff with a Shoulder Horn, and the Kettlebell Halo are some of the most effective for me.

Shoulder Horn Video Demo



Not much weight can be used with the External Shoulder Horn Movement.
Click to expand...

In weighted dips maximal (overcoming) isometrics can be done with supramaximal weights using belt ( weights that can't be lifted) let's say get in bottom position rise your feets of the ground and push against bars but your not moving because of the 100%+ weight on the belt. That can improve dips done at few angles positions trough rom in this case from bottom up from long lengths to short.
In my chase it was from bottom position at the most stretched for 1 set 10 sec of max effort (coaches advised 5/6 sec. because of force peak) nex position was 5 cm far from first one then again 5 cm and repete that till i come to end of rom.
 
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John K said:
I like dips.

I can dip and bench about the same. Which isn't much, but dips keep me at about a bodyweight bench without benching.

There's almost always a deceleration phase, unless you're doing a ballistic or plyometric like jump, throw, or swing. But perhaps what you mean by "deceleration phase" is different than what I understand, so clarification may be needed. My understanding is that there is a necessary slowing between the stretch and shortening. With something like a throw or a jump, this is minimized. I do not see a dip as minimizing this relative to a bench press, as both start at the top, go through the stretch, and then slow, stop, and begin to contract.

Here is some recent research looking at bench, bar, and ring dips. They even have a nice little flow chart.

Bench, Bar, and Ring Dips: Do Kinematics and Muscle Activity Differ?

I would not suggest bench dips as a "regression" for dips as I think due to the levers it places a lot of strain on the shoulder due to the extreme shoulder extension, which they mention in the discussion; however, they believe the lower load ameliorates that. You'll notice muscle elctromyography - for whatever that is worth - was similar for ring and bar dips, but generally lower for bench dips. I am not surprised by that.
Click to expand...
Thanks on this reasrch its hard to finde any stuff like that on dips, about deceleration phase of concentric part of lift i think that i saw somewhere on t nation CT was talking that push ups dont have deceleration i dont know, but with dips you can do explosiv concentric so you rise of bars.
 
Spirit198 said:
Thanks on this reasrch its hard to finde any stuff like that on dips, about deceleration phase of concentric part of lift i think that i saw somewhere on t nation CT was talking that push ups dont have deceleration i dont know, but with dips you can do explosiv concentric so you rise of bars.
Click to expand...
Both pushups and dips will still have deceleration involved. You can definitely do an explosive concentric on both dips and pushups, but that doesn't mean deceleration is not occurring. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I also don't think it matters.
 
Dips are the preferred pushing exercise on the calisthenics days for Easy Muscle Schedule B. I can't speak for Geoff Neupert but can only guess one reason dips were chosen is ease of loading when the trainee has progressed to an easy 10 or higher rep max with bodyweight dips - just put on a dip belt and add enough load to bring your rep max back down to 10.

As the name Easy Muscle implies, this is a hypertrophy program. I gained decent muscle size - tricep in particular - after 8 weeks of training at my level at the time, which was dips with foot assistance. The size gain carried over to gains in pressing strength when I switched from that hypertrophy training block to a strength training block.

To protect my shoulders, I do dips on rings and turn the thumbs out at the bottom position of the dip, engaging the external shoulder rotators

So when I progress to weighted dips, I plan to do them only for hypertrophy work. I prefer overhead pressing using heavy KBs or isometric device for strength.
 
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I am also doing dips from Easy Muscle after many non-dipping years. The comment about shoulder strains at the bottom of the exercise is surprising to me since I read about dip safety a decade ago. I read we should put an object at the bottom position so you graze your knee at the right depth and use that as the cue to press back up. Or if you have adjustable handles to graze knees on the floor when you reach a proper shoulder angle and then push back up from there. You could even descend to the fullest range of motion, rest on the knees, and let go of the bar if you are too tired. Perhaps these suggestions are not a standard practice.
 
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