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Old Forum What is the goal?

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morrisda

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I have posted a few times, but am more of a reader vs poster.

A little about myself.  I am 51, 5’9 260 pds.  By and large to “heavy”.  Dexa tells me about 40% FAT, or 60% LBM. I would like to get to at least under 20% with a long term goal of 15% BF, i.e. 180-185.

I have been exercising 3-5 times a week, with the goal of getting stronger.  Oct/Nov last year I started out pretty much empty bar of OHP, Squat, Bench, and Deads.  I have a home gym with a Leverage pull up machine as well and started low on that as well.

Currently I have built up to a

OHP 125

Squat 225

Bench 175

Dead 295

Pull up/Lat pull 170

The numbers are not huge, but I am making good progress I feel for 51.  I work out at home, basically have a garage gym with everything I need Power Rack, Dumbells, KB’s ect.

I cycle between hard (for me) training 2X5.  I like RPT for this (same as Power to People) one hard set, reduce by 10% second set, or Easy Strength, change it up every few weeks.   I like to change it up and I think this will hopefully keep me injury free.

From an aerobic point of view I am also weak, thus I wanted to add 5-15 min of metabolic conditioning in 3-5 times a week, i.e. KB swings, or complexes, I also know this may aid in fat loss.

I am stronger, my mobility improves weekly, I am already sleeping better, energy better, but I am still at 260.

I know it’s the diet and I also know I read and over think things, i.e. amount of carbs for recovery, amount of protein to add muscle ect.

Then I got thinking (again) from reading here at this site or Dan Johns work, what is my goal?  The goal is fat loss and to get stronger, not necessarily add LBM.  At LBM of 155 and assuming I get down to 180-185 there is no reason I can not Bench 250, Squat 300, Dead 400, OHP 200, and do a few BW pullups, I have the LBM, just not the strength and I am carry 2 much fat.

Thus I am wondering if I should just hit a Easy Strength type of routine, keep my current strength or gain slowly, add in some metabolic conditioning for fat loss and then concentrate on diet.

Diet is I believe my issue, I am an eater, and I admit will power or consistency is issue.  I am “good” most times thru out week, but weekends…Years ago I did I followe nutrisystems type approach and I went from 215 down to 165, portion control does work but not a fan of boxed food

IF, counting macros, Paleo, Primal, Warrior, If it fits your Macros, ect ect ect.

I will figure this out.

Any suggestions or comments are welcome and appreciated.

Have a great Weekend

Dan
 
As an "eater" myself who became prediabetic a few years ago, I found a great trick (along with a few other other tricks), that helped me greatly.  Look at the calorie density of the foods you eat i.e. calories/pound. In controlled experiments several factors have been identified that tell people "enough" and weight of food is by far #1; everyone pretty much eats on average, same weight of food per day. So if you focus on the lower calorie density stuff, you will get satiated and "full" on a lot less calories. And as it turns out, vegetables are the lowest calorie density with fruit in 2nd place. Works out nicely for a healthy diet. Start at least one meal/day with a big salad and be careful of the dressing as oil comes in as the very most calorie dense thing on any menu! Best if you make your own using fruit, nuts and seeds, and spices all in the blender.

Also, water has zero calories/per pound so obviously, soups and stews are much less calorie dense than same foods cooked "dry". I often use hot soup or veg stew as the salad dressing.

Just working with that you can eat until really "done" and still lose weight.

For more detailed info and other tricks

Jeff Novick, RD on calorie density

And if you are more a listener than a reader, this is short excerpt from lecture on same topic by Novick
Calorie Density with Jeff Novick
 
 
I won't comment much on the diet stuff, as I'm not an expert. But I do like what Geoffrey was saying.  I had never thought of it that way before.

As far as your workout goes, I would suggest more or less keep doing what you're doing.  You're getting stronger on the big lifts, you like it, and you're still making progress.  As you're a fan of Dan John I have no doubt you've heard him say "this is working so well how about I screw it up by changing something."

That said, I do think some extra conditioning type stuff could help with the weight loss.  I can understand why you'd think of metcon type workouts, as those are a huge hit to the system.  But honestly, I wouldn't go there right now.  Your age and weight and strength could easily lead you to getting burned out and/or injured.  And that's the last setback you need right now.

I would recommend walking.  I think it is the most under-rated conditioning exercise out there.  It's natural, it is hard to injure yourself doing it, and it is really hard to do too much of it.  Start out with 30 minutes or so everyday.  Don't dawdle, but don't try to walk as fast as as you can, either.  Keep it comfortably brisk.  Then work up to an hour+ everyday.  Vary your walks by going to hilly areas, parks, trails, new parts of town, whatever.  You can walk everywhere, that's another awesome thing about it.  Oh, and no equipment, another plus.

At that point, I bet you would have shed some weight and gained some strength (from sticking with the barbell) and conditioning.  Then look to add some more strenuous types of metcon workouts after that.

That's just what I would do.  Curious to hear what other suggestions people have.
 
I second the walking suggestion. Walking plus two to three lifting session would be terrific. Don't try to kill yourself with more high intensity stuff. It won't make much of a difference. Diet is key. You might want to check out "Fat Loss Happens on Monday". I had great success with Eat Stop Eat. It changed my eating habits and I lost weight without stress. But many approaches can work. Just don't try to out train a donut.
 
Dan, I was in a similar situation (5'8 and 230). Diet should be your #1 concern, that doesn't mean necessarily doing a hardcore diet but finding one that you enjoy following long term. It is the most important factor in fat loss. A low stress "go by feel" routine such as Easy Strength or S&S is, IMO, the best way to train on a relatively large caloric deficit as you will be doing.
 
You identified the goal. Fat loss and you identified your biggest obstacle, diet. Make diet your number one priority and keep training how you have been. As was mentioned before Fatloss happens on Monday would be a great book to get. Love the approach. I've been using with a friend who is losing fat. He is making good progress, following the workouts from the book. But most of the fat loss comes from how much better he has been doing in what and how much he eats.

get that diet under control and the fat will start coming off.
 
Dan, I agree with James.  As long as your workout routine is producing results don't change it.  Ride that train as long as you can.

Your weight issue is almost entirely related to diet.  I'm 53 years old and understand the issues you have. There are many ways to get there but I recommend the Eat-Stop-Eat method of intermittent fasting by Brad Pilon.  It took me about 2 weeks to get adjusted to fasting but after that it becomes relatively easy.

I skip breakfast and lunch every Monday and Friday and eat normally the rest of the week.  This alone is enough of a calorie deficit to slowly reduce fat levels.  As important as the twice a week fast is, it is even more important to watch what you do when you are eating normally.  I'm not a big believer in the 4-6 small meals a day idea.  Eat 3 meals a day on normal days.  Don't snack between meals and stop eating when you are no longer hungry, not when you feel stuffed. This is key.  Again, give it two weeks before you decide if you can maintain.  Once you get past the first two weeks and are acclimated, shoot for two months and see if you don't start dropping 1 to 1.5 lbs per week.  You can reduce the fasts from twice per week to once per week if you want to slow the rate of fat loss as you approach your goal.
 
My personal preference is for the Fast-5 approach to IF. You eat only during a 5 hour window every day and only water and zero calorie beverages the rest of the time. You pick the window.  Doing it this we the added benefit is very regular training of physiology to smoothly shift from burning glucose to fat and back as needed. At least that's the theory. The entire info pkg is free which is a nice plus.

Fast-5
 
Dan, I did Atkins and later expanded to include "slow carb" foods (beans, lentils etc). Now I eat the occasional gram of sugar (!). I think caloric restriction is the most important thing, but consuming plenty of protein and fat makes it easier to adhere to a diet.
 
Dan, another vote for walking.

You might find Simple & Sinister meets your exercise needs while allowing you to focus on diet.  It should help you with body composition as well.

-S-
 
I am a fellow sufferer of excessive body weight. I am 6'1" tall and weighed 289.6 lb last Wednesday. My conditioning is adequate as I have no problem completing the simple goal with a 32 kg bell under 16 minutes on a near daily basis. My issue is diet. I am a BIG eater and I find it difficult to maintain a longer term calorie deficit. I'm good for about 5-8 days, but I will almost always blow it and feast. This is my experience and it adds more credence to the concept that diet is mostly responsible for excess weight. Can I control my diet....that is the big question when it comes to weight loss.
 
So I've hesitated posting this info because I don't want it to sound like a commercial, but there's a coaching program called "Immunity to Change" (of which I'm a trained facilitator) that I think is really beneficial. To be clear, I don't do it as a business. I mention it because it helped me lose 35 lbs when I just couldn't get my weight figured out even though I know all the right information and exercised regularly.

I too labeled myself as a "big eater" and my friends and family all joked that I was the human garbage disposal because I would eat just about any type of food and lots of it. What I realized is that everyone, including me, identified me to some degree with that label. When I would try to make changes in my diet, I would get lots of questions and concern from people thinking something was wrong with me because I wasn't the same person they were used to. I'm not saying this is what's going on with you guys, but change is hard because it goes against our habits and the known perception of you by others. However, we also have to watch how our language and thoughts help perpetuate these "problems" (first world ones, for sure!). Calling ourselves a "big eater" is different than saying "I eat too much, too often". Seems like semantics but psychologically, it's not. One is something you do and the other is something you are.

The ITC program isn't a diet  and is all about reframing and finding out what competing commitments you might have that are keeping you stuck. It can be done in an hour with a coach and be focused toward any goal you're trying to achieve. At any rate, if someone wants more info, they can PM me at jgruginski (at) gmail (dot) com or just buy the book and try it out yourself.  Good luck either way!
 
In response to Joe's post. The language with which we approach things in our lives is very important. I referred to myself as a big eater. But, I'm not afraid to say I eat way too much. In fact I will have a conversation with myself during some larger meals that typically goes like this:

-Better stop there, that's enough to eat at this meal.

-But it tastes so good. Just eat it all!

-Good idea! I will eat it all.

 

I know what I am doing, yet am unable to stop. I am weak and undisciplined in this aspect of my fitness.
 
That made me laugh, Daniel. What I presented was at a very superficial level, and even if it's not being a big eater, there's probably something about being a bigger guy that has it's benefits for you; something that reinforces this pattern of not stopping. I'm 6' 1" but topped out at a soft (with moobs) 220.  I always validated that I would rather be a soft 220 than a hard and "skinny" 185. What you described is exactly what ITC is good for. " I know what I'm doing but am unable to stop." That's just the "devil you know".

If you think about every intentional action we take is being made for some positive purpose (positive in the sense that it is meant to make us feel good or correct), then discovering that positive purpose will help find the right way to stop when you want to. You might enjoy reading about David Rock's work that he's focused on corporate leadership, but is equally applicable here. Again, happy to discuss live because it's really hard to get down to the right level in a post to show all the intricate cycles that are going on behind the scenes in all of us. Again, this isn't a business for me, just something that I enjoy understanding and sharing to those who might find it useful.
 
http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/02/losing-fat-building-muscle-simple-lifestyle-diet/

I think this article is quite good diet advice.
 
If I could make a suggestion, pick up the book "Strong Medicine" by Chris Hardy and Marty Gallagher.
 
Joe, sounds like an interesting program and book - I've added it to my wish list on amazon.com and will order it soon.

-S-
 
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