Other/Mixed What SHOULD your goals be

[Kozushi]

I get the impression we arbitrarily choose a goal for very light reasons and then pursue it to the death. I'm challenging everyone to review their goals and decide if they are worthy or not.

My fitness goals:

1. long life - a worthy goal as survival is important
   
2. practical everyday strength - worthy as it's useful to living comfortably
3. aesthetics - important for practical reasons for enjoyment of life
4. judo strength - judo mostly takes care of this itself, but S&S etc can help with parts of judo strength like grip strength, pushing and pulling strength, general endurance etc. Why judo? It satisfies the other 3 points to some extent plus it has social benefits and self-defence utility.

Implementation (responding point by point to the above):

1. long life - a mixture of cardio and strength training. Thus S&S is okay, or barbells and walking, but not just barbell slow lifts, for instance.
2. practical everyday strength - being able to move myself around (bodyweight) and objects (free weights) generally speaking in an upright posture as this is the most usual one for everyday work and life. So, chinups, dips, swings, deadlifts, presses, even curls... Also, endurance matters, so suitcase carries etc fit the bill or at least things that resemble this (swings will do). Some variation from the upright posture like TGUs don't deviate much from "everyday strength" and we do need to get out of bed in the morning, TGU-like, right?
3. aesthetics - this is different. Need to pull in the belly, broaden the shoulders, exercise the whole body, so this involves moves that are not "practical" strength - so, pushups, bridges, L-sits, squats, TGUs of course, swings, chinups, ring moves, plyometrics even (like in judo) like rolls, cartwheels etc, levers...
4. judo strength - all the above of course, basically strength in all planes with grip strength being particularly important of course, and violent pushes and pulls like swings, endurance-strength etc...

 

[Steve W.]

I have three main training goals:
1. Consistently engage in the training process.
2. Enjoy my training.
3. Don't do a lot of stupid things. (I originally wrote "Avoid doing stupid things," but that is not only unrealistic, it also sometimes conflicts with goal #2).

 

[Oscar]

I like @Steve W. 's and been following it for a while. I dont know if there is much more to it.

I do try to have my fitness goals aligned with my needs. For instance, dont train like a powerlifter for a marathon. This is not easy to do in my opinion since chasing numbers sometimes takes us in the wrong direction.

For instance, I'm now training for SFG I. Since bodyweight doesn't matter for SFG I (unless you are close to 100 or 68 kg), I'm eating a lot. A lot. And that is not in line with my other sports. But is making training easier for sure. After SFG I'll lose weight again.

 

[North Coast Miller]

The following in any order:

1 - maintain and/or increase muscle mass as a (the only) effective hedge against age related muscle wasting or medical mandated downtime.
2 - improve effective application of everyday strength and mobility - break into sprint with no notice, move heavy stuff, apply force in inconvenient situations. Included in this is ability to work around injuries/conditions.
3 - improve/maintain cardio endurance and rapid recovery, understanding I am not targeting longer duration higher intensity.
4 - improve/maintain connective tissue resilience to sudden or unaccustomed shock or rapid exposure to high load

 

[Kozushi]

I have three main training goals:
1. Consistently engage in the training process.
2. Enjoy my training.
3. Don't do a lot of stupid things. (I originally wrote "Avoid doing stupid things," but that is not only unrealistic, it also sometimes conflicts with goal #2).

So, walking across my lawn once a day with a smile would fit these parameters. Just sayin'.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

I get the impression we arbitrarily choose a goal for very light reasons and then pursue it to the death.

This is exactly where I start to struggle with the concept of GPP being used as a catchall to mask arbitrary goals. I think, for me, GPP has become synonymous with unworthy goal. I think "concurrent training" of multiple goals are still specific. They are just constraints on the training equation.

Personally my primary goal(s) are to pass various levels of fitness tests required for employment. That includes considerations such as passing them at any time , with any amount of notice, for a long time which influences the inputs to solve the equation.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Another factor that will influence goals are the tools at our disposal.

Even with the same general goals I might train very differently if I had time and access to a full gym w/ barbells and all the other bells and whistles.

 

[Steve W.]

So, walking across my lawn once a day with a smile would fit these parameters. Just sayin'.

Maybe...how big is your lawn?

Are you carrying farmer's walk bars?

Are you pushing a prowler?

 

[the hansenator]

I think for most people who don't play a sport or have job related physical requirements, goals are pretty arbitrary. In those cases i think it's better just to pick something you want to improve on because the other option would be to have no goals at all.

Reality being the harsh mistress it is, my goals tend to be things most people take for granted:

-Not hurt (back, shoulder, foot)
-Maintain health
-Be able to work out and hike and do things a normal person should be able to do
-Avoid sarcopenia that could result from not reaching previous goal

 

[offwidth]

Another factor that will influence goals are the tools at our disposal.

Even with the same general goals I might train very differently if I had time and access to a full gym w/ barbells and all the other bells and whistles.

I am going to respectfully disagree with this. (A little bit)
If one has serious goals, ones that they are serious about. (Goals that are realistic however..) Then they will do what is required to acquire the tools needed and do what it takes. They will move countries, spend scads of money, and with unbending intent do what it takes.

If your goal is to surf big waves and you live in Nebraska... then you either have unrealistic goals, or you move to Hawaii.

Now... that being said I know people that have successfully climbed some serious big high altitude mountains in the greater ranges and they live in Wisconsin. They find a way.

I will freely admit that many (if not most) of us have these types of goals.

 

[Kozushi]

I am going to respectfully disagree with this. (A little bit)
If one has serious goals, ones that they are serious about. (Goals that are realistic however..) Then they will do what is required to acquire the tools needed and do what it takes. They will move countries, spend scads of money, and with unbending intent do what it takes.

If your goal is to surf big waves and you live in Nebraska... then you either have unrealistic goals, or you move to Hawaii.

Now... that being said I know people that have successfully climbed some serious big high altitude mountains in the greater ranges and they live in Wisconsin. They find a way.

I will freely admit that many (if not most) of us have these types of goals.

Good point. In other words we've got guys claiming something is a goal for them but actually it isn't really. This is a good point.

My challenge to the surfer is as to why surfing should be a goal. Not saying it shouldn't be, but I'm challenging the surfer to explain why it is for him/her.

I could choose from a million kinds of recreational activities, so why specifically S&S or judo or callisthenics or hiking or whatever? One question posed to me recently is "why not do yoga?" It's a good question.

 

[Nate]

I feel Intervention by Dan John addressed this well. As much as i sometimes romanticize it differently, I'm quadrant 3. Goals are therefore clear.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I am going to respectfully disagree with this. (A little bit)
If one has serious goals, ones that they are serious about. (Goals that are realistic however..) Then they will do what is required to acquire the tools needed and do what it takes. They will move countries, spend scads of money, and with unbending intent do what it takes.

If your goal is to surf big waves and you live in Nebraska... then you either have unrealistic goals, or you move to Hawaii.

Now... that being said I know people that have successfully climbed some serious big high altitude mountains in the greater ranges and they live in Wisconsin. They find a way.

I will freely admit that many (if not most) of us have these types of goals.

I'd say I'm a perfect example. Moving to a house with a dedicated training area is not currently an option, nor is constructing an addition. So all my gear needs to be portable and not wreck the floor or carpet.
This was a prime motivator in pursuing kettlebells.
Also being a fitness goal and therefore generally a $ sink rather than a revenue generator, there's a limit to what I will spend. Fortunately there's a limit to how much time I can spend as well. The goal is constrained, but still attainable within context of the tools available.

Another person with more $, space and time might approach this differently, as would I. Fortunately I have enough know-how to get the results I want using the tools I have, though it takes more fussing around the edges to get it right. I might not even make better progress with a major overhaul, but if I had the opportunity I am a confirmed tinkerer and would be sure to experiment.

 

[Kozushi]

I'd say I'm a perfect example. Moving to a house with a dedicated training area is not currently an option, nor is constructing an addition. So all my gear needs to be portable and not wreck the floor or carpet.
This was a prime motivator in pursuing kettlebells.
Also being a fitness goal and therefore generally a $ sink rather than a revenue generator, there's a limit to what I will spend. Fortunately there's a limit to how much time I can spend as well. The goal is constrained, but still attainable within context of the tools available.

Another person with more $, space and time might approach this differently, as would I. Fortunately I have enough know-how to get the results I want using the tools I have, though it takes more fussing around the edges to get it right. I might not even make better progress with a major overhaul, but if I had the opportunity I am a confirmed tinkerer and would be sure to experiment.

I'm not willing to go to a weight lifting gym, point finale. Thus my interest in Strong First. This is stuff I can do in my own home. Some stuff pushes the limits a bit (like where you're supposed to build a special floor for deadlifting etc) so it gives me the impression that Strong First tries to go as far as possible with the home training parameter. I was rereading Naked Warrior last night and Pavel pointed out that neither bodyweight nor free weights is better, and he goes on to point out how the top guys do both and you could certainly do one or the other depending on what your current needs are. I then did a few one arm pushups with my right arm (left is still sore from some other stuff and I didn't pull it off.) He writes that the barbell is excellent because you can use scientific, incremental increases in weight. I do not dispute that the barbellers are the strongest in terms of what they actually lift. Bodyweight is limiting. However, if you're 220lbs like me, bodyweight is still quite heavy, as heavy as you might do reps with the barbell with for certain moves, and indeed even heavier for some. Movement patterns for bodyweight are different and worth doing in order to be able to pull them off proficiently (like one arm pushups). Kettlebell swings and asymmetrical lifts like the TGUs again are sub maximal load but the violence of the swings and the asymmetry of the TGUs give them their own special niche. If you're just doing slow heavy barbell stuff (at the gym) you're missing out on the violence of swings, the asymmetry of TGUs and the moving-yourself strength of bodyweight. They're all good, but the nice thing about the Strong First programs is we can do them at home no problem. This is enormously important! The gym I go to is my judo training hall, three times a week. No time for a weight lifting gym for me.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I agree mostly. If I were at the gym, I wouldn't just be barbell, though having a squat rack is the first thing I'd take advantage of.

Currently for heavy leg work I'm limited to 220 lbs or so and have to crawl under three full size commercial sandbags lashed together to load up. Its awkward and I suspect as effective as quite a bit more weight on a bar, but would be so much easier to just slap plates on a bar and squat. Likewise I am unable to do anything resembling conventional deadlift.

There are now a lot of attachments for cable machines like the Gray Cook bar that will allow symmetrical core transfer work. I'd love to include some more of that. Concrete wall for medicine ball slams, prowlers, heavy dumbells.

I have no doubt I'd make better progress, but not enough better that I'm willing to get a gym membership. My goals are just not that specific. If I wanted to compete in an over 50 BB competition next year, well, I ain't gonna get there with just sandbags and a jump rope. Is good enough for what I'm after though.

 

[Kozushi]

I agree mostly. If I were at the gym, I wouldn't just be barbell, though having a squat rack is the first thing I'd take advantage of.

Currently for heavy leg work I'm limited to 220 lbs or so and have to crawl under three full size commercial sandbags lashed together to load up. Its awkward and I suspect as effective as quite a bit more weight on a bar, but would be so much easier to just slap plates on a bar and squat. Likewise I am unable to do anything resembling conventional deadlift.

There are now a lot of attachments for cable machines like the Gray Cook bar that will allow symmetrical core transfer work. I'd love to include some more of that. Concrete wall for medicine ball slams, prowlers, heavy dumbells.

I have no doubt I'd make better progress, but not enough better that I'm willing to get a gym membership. My goals are just not that specific. If I wanted to compete in an over 50 BB competition next year, well, I ain't gonna get there with just sandbags and a jump rope. Is good enough for what I'm after though.

It's different being a judo wrestler. My judo gym is full of guys lifting heavy and even competing in powerlifting and similar competitions. These guys lift, squat, press ridiculous amounts, but when it comes to the chaos of judo training I seem to have better practical judo strength and conditioning, and noticeably so. I don't want to take this too far and maybe I'm wrong, but I've got a reputation of being "too strong". Against some of the real beasts at the gym I'll say that my strength at least is not noticeably any weaker than theirs. Of course, judo training is not just about strength but also about technique and skill. Movement is as important as strength, so home training that involves more movement than just up and down stuff is going to relate to more situations in judo.

I'd suspect your sandbags are giving you more practical strength for life than perfectly balanced barbells that are significantly heavier. Real things in life including other humans are not perfectly balanced, symmetrical, stationary things! Something I like about bodyweight home training is that it is a sort of mirror of my opponents' bodies in judo.

 

[North Coast Miller]

It's different being a judo wrestler. My judo gym is full of guys lifting heavy and even competing in powerlifting and similar competitions. These guys lift, squat, press ridiculous amounts, but when it comes to the chaos of judo training I seem to have better practical judo strength and conditioning, and noticeably so. I don't want to take this too far and maybe I'm wrong, but I've got a reputation of being "too strong". Against some of the real beasts at the gym I'll say that my strength at least is not noticeably any weaker than theirs. Of course, judo training is not just about strength but also about technique and skill. Movement is as important as strength, so home training that involves more movement than just up and down stuff is going to relate to more situations in judo.

I'd suspect your sandbags are giving you more practical strength for life than perfectly balanced barbells that are significantly heavier. Real things in life including other humans are not perfectly balanced, symmetrical, stationary things! Something I like about bodyweight home training is that it is a sort of mirror of my opponents' bodies in judo.

There is definitely a range of carryover depending on the lift and the means used to train it. You reach a point where you're running into specificity like air resistance on a bicycle.

The sandbag squats are doing more for me than double front squats ever did. Granted I'm using more weight, but they also feel like a more natural movement.

Another thing I just realized today that I believe is a by product of sandbags - there is a heavy steel door between the production area and the front offices where I work. I'm not sure when, but I don't use my hands to open it anymore, ever - I collide with it using my shoulder. That door used to hurt if I did it too hard or too often, now it recoils open, and I could be hitting it a lot harder...

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

To me, a real goal is measurable. There is an actual timeline, and a hard measurement that determines whether you met that goal or not. Things like "I want to complete this race without cramping", "I want to hit a total of XXX in this lifting meet", "I want to win this martial arts competition". With goals like that, there are clear parameters, and the path to getting there should be clear. Like @Bro Mo indicates, if you have real goals, you shouldn't be doing GPP.

If want you want is to "be healthy" or "be strong", then to me, you are goalless. Which is perfectly fine. There are any number of paths to get what you want, and you are free to take any of them. You just never quite know if you have gotten what you wanted or not. At least, not until you are lying on your death bed at 100 years old and decide "yep, I did it".

The "why" is a whole other question. For most of us, even if we have real goals, the only reason for them is the satisfaction of achieving them. Will getting a 2X bodyweight deadlift at the October TSC significantly change my quality of life in some way? Probably not. But I'll derive satisfaction from it, and the pursuit provides a path that I enjoy following.

I consider myself fortunate that satisfaction and enjoyment of pursuit are enough to make my goals "worthy".

 

[Kozushi]

To me, a real goal is measurable. There is an actual timeline, and a hard measurement that determines whether you met that goal or not. Things like "I want to complete this race without cramping", "I want to hit a total of XXX in this lifting meet", "I want to win this martial arts competition". With goals like that, there are clear parameters, and the path to getting there should be clear. Like @Bro Mo indicates, if you have real goals, you shouldn't be doing GPP.

If want you want is to "be healthy" or "be strong", then to me, you are goalless. Which is perfectly fine. There are any number of paths to get what you want, and you are free to take any of them. You just never quite know if you have gotten what you wanted or not. At least, not until you are lying on your death bed at 100 years old and decide "yep, I did it".

The "why" is a whole other question. For most of us, even if we have real goals, the only reason for them is the satisfaction of achieving them. Will getting a 2X bodyweight deadlift at the October TSC significantly change my quality of life in some way? Probably not. But I'll derive satisfaction from it, and the pursuit provides a path that I enjoy following.

I consider myself fortunate that satisfaction and enjoyment of pursuit are enough to make my goals "worthy".

Satisfaction is a logical reason for a goal. I just question if this or that goal will really give someone the satisfaction they crave. It might be unsatisfying when it actually happens.

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

Satisfaction is a logical reason for a goal. I just question if this or that goal will really give someone the satisfaction they crave. It might be unsatisfying when it actually happens.

I'd say the lack of satisfaction comes from assigning some additional side effect that you expected to achieve as part of reaching the goal, which is setting yourself up for disappointment. If you set a goal of "I want to reach Simple", but you're actually thinking "because then I'll be 20# lighter and super buff and everything else will be easy" - you may be disappointed when you hit Simple, because the reality is you picked the wrong goal.

We commonly say to "keep the goal the goal" in the context of maintaining focus. But, it also means picking the real goal - what is it you really want.