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Barbell Why so many sets??

ForReal

Level 1 Valued Member
I'm still doing deadlift dynamite and I wonder why do the accessories have so much sets.

Would it be better to do just warm up sets and then a really hard set? Like dorian yates. I dont know how to do that while having enough in me to do plenty of cardio? Or maybe i should just train hard but not use intensity amplifiers like forced reps? I have no idea about the balance.

Why are there leg exercises on the deadlift day as well?

I'd like to do this:
Mon-
Squat, leg assistance

Wed-
Bench press, tricep + shoulder assistance

Fri-
Deadlift, back assisstance


I'm dying from confusion. It may seem I'm overcomplicating it but i just dont want to do more sets.

Someone may say that the authors are more educated than me and i should just shut up and listen but it just doesn't make sense on any universe to do more sets. Muscular damage is muscular damage. It can be done in one set but more sets just prolongs it.



I just want to have a squat day on monday with leg exercises. A bench day on wednesday with exercises for the shoulders and triceps since andy bolton said you dont need chest work if youre benching a lot. And a deadlift day on friday with exercises for the back.

Just want to powerbuild and train intense rather than not intense. Just don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to be strong and muscular and do quite a bit of cardio without overtraining.



Thinking of adding something to work my thumb like pinch grip exercise on deadlift day so i can climb walls like spiderman for real.
Eventually i want to add a pull up(when i can do one) to my deadlift day. Dont know how that'll work out.
 
ForReal said:
I'm still doing deadlift dynamite and I wonder why do the accessories have so much sets.
Click to expand...

It's traditional to do assistance work, often with a hypertrophy focus (moderate weights, lots of volume), after the day's main lift is done.

-S-
 
ForReal said:
I'm still doing deadlift dynamite and I wonder why do the accessories have so much sets.

Would it be better to do just warm up sets and then a really hard set? Like dorian yates. I dont know how to do that while having enough in me to do plenty of cardio? Or maybe i should just train hard but not use intensity amplifiers like forced reps? I have no idea about the balance.

Why are there leg exercises on the deadlift day as well?

I'd like to do this:
Mon-
Squat, leg assistance

Wed-
Bench press, tricep + shoulder assistance

Fri-
Deadlift, back assisstance


I'm dying from confusion. It may seem I'm overcomplicating it but i just dont want to do more sets.

Someone may say that the authors are more educated than me and i should just shut up and listen but it just doesn't make sense on any universe to do more sets. Muscular damage is muscular damage. It can be done in one set but more sets just prolongs it.



I just want to have a squat day on monday with leg exercises. A bench day on wednesday with exercises for the shoulders and triceps since andy bolton said you dont need chest work if youre benching a lot. And a deadlift day on friday with exercises for the back.

Just want to powerbuild and train intense rather than not intense. Just don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to be strong and muscular and do quite a bit of cardio without overtraining.



Thinking of adding something to work my thumb like pinch grip exercise on deadlift day so i can climb walls like spiderman for real.
Eventually i want to add a pull up(when i can do one) to my deadlift day. Dont know how that'll work out.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you want to do something other than the specified program.

So do what you want?
 
Maybe something like this would be a better fit for you?

tim.blog

Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Mullet power: John Inzer deadlifts 780 lbs. at 165 lbs. bodyweight. (Photo: Powerlifting USA) Pavel Tsatsouline, former Soviet Special Forces physical training instructor, has made a name for himself in the world of strength. He wrote the below article, outlining the simple routine of Russian...
tim.blog tim.blog

Or even Easy Strength, depending on how much else you have going on and what your priorities are.

Trying to use a specialist's program as part of one's GPP is tricky.
 
ForReal said:
I'm still doing deadlift dynamite and I wonder why do the accessories have so much sets.

Would it be better to do just warm up sets and then a really hard set? Like dorian yates. I dont know how to do that while having enough in me to do plenty of cardio? Or maybe i should just train hard but not use intensity amplifiers like forced reps? I have no idea about the balance.

Why are there leg exercises on the deadlift day as well?

I'd like to do this:
Mon-
Squat, leg assistance

Wed-
Bench press, tricep + shoulder assistance

Fri-
Deadlift, back assisstance


I'm dying from confusion. It may seem I'm overcomplicating it but i just dont want to do more sets.

Someone may say that the authors are more educated than me and i should just shut up and listen but it just doesn't make sense on any universe to do more sets. Muscular damage is muscular damage. It can be done in one set but more sets just prolongs it.



I just want to have a squat day on monday with leg exercises. A bench day on wednesday with exercises for the shoulders and triceps since andy bolton said you dont need chest work if youre benching a lot. And a deadlift day on friday with exercises for the back.

Just want to powerbuild and train intense rather than not intense. Just don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to be strong and muscular and do quite a bit of cardio without overtraining.



Thinking of adding something to work my thumb like pinch grip exercise on deadlift day so i can climb walls like spiderman for real.
Eventually i want to add a pull up(when i can do one) to my deadlift day. Dont know how that'll work out.
Click to expand...
After reading this and the mention at the end that you want to be able to add pullups when you can do one, I would venture to guess you would benefit more from a beginner or even intermediate strength program than a "Dorian Yates-esque" approach.

You may want to have a Squat day, Bench day, and Deadlift day, but understand that would be far from optimal at best, completely ineffective at worse.

Very respectfully, if you cannot do a pullup yet, or even sets of multiple reps of pullups, you do not have the baseline strength or neuromuscular coordination required to make those low volume, high intensity approaches actually work. Even then, they might not be optimal.

Ultimately, it is your training and you are going to do what it is you want, but if you are looking for feedback, insight, etc. as it appears you are by posting to a forum. If training with a barbell, my recommendation would be to develop a base level of strength through something like Rippetoe's Starting Strength and/or the Texas Method 5x5 protocol. If training more with kettlebells, you can't go wrong with Simple & Sinister.
 
ForReal said:
Get strong at push, pull, hinge and squat(i will do pull ups when i can do a pull up) and get jacked too with the assistance and eat lots. Also want to defend myself and be physically capable
Click to expand...
Again, there is no disrespect meant at all, it is out of a place of not wanting you to spin your wheels - but if you can't do a pullup, you need to develop a base level of strength before even thinking about "getting jacked".
 
ForReal said:
I'm still doing deadlift dynamite and I wonder why do the accessories have so much sets.

Would it be better to do just warm up sets and then a really hard set? Like dorian yates. I dont know how to do that while having enough in me to do plenty of cardio? Or maybe i should just train hard but not use intensity amplifiers like forced reps? I have no idea about the balance.

Why are there leg exercises on the deadlift day as well?

I'd like to do this:
Mon-
Squat, leg assistance

Wed-
Bench press, tricep + shoulder assistance

Fri-
Deadlift, back assisstance


I'm dying from confusion. It may seem I'm overcomplicating it but i just dont want to do more sets.

Someone may say that the authors are more educated than me and i should just shut up and listen but it just doesn't make sense on any universe to do more sets. Muscular damage is muscular damage. It can be done in one set but more sets just prolongs it.



I just want to have a squat day on monday with leg exercises. A bench day on wednesday with exercises for the shoulders and triceps since andy bolton said you dont need chest work if youre benching a lot. And a deadlift day on friday with exercises for the back.

Just want to powerbuild and train intense rather than not intense. Just don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to be strong and muscular and do quite a bit of cardio without overtraining.



Thinking of adding something to work my thumb like pinch grip exercise on deadlift day so i can climb walls like spiderman for real.
Eventually i want to add a pull up(when i can do one) to my deadlift day. Dont know how that'll work out.
Click to expand...
get rid of it. if you can do over 3 reps with a weight it's not worth doing
 
Dorian Yates did not do what people say Dorian Yates did.

Take a leg workout out.

Do a nice warm up. Get things good. MULTIPLE sets of BW squats, lunges, etc.

Then go to the leg press.

Start light. Do sets of of 20. Work up.

Get to working weights and drops the reps. Get to say 10 rep sets. Work up.

Now you are at your money set. MANY sets later.

You have worked up to the heaviest weight you can think of. A weight you think you can do 10 reps with.

You put it on the bar. Your hype man is SCREAMING at you. You are pacing. Your hype many is slapping your back and your face. You are putting yourself in a place where pain doesn't matter.

You get under it. You start pushing. You get 8 reps and want to die. Your hype man slaps you a few times and tells you if you don't get that weight up you'll die under it and your kids will be orphans.

You dig deep and get three more reps. There's nothing left but you dig deep and get another two. Then it doesn't matter and your onto singles.

Now you aren't doing reps. Your partners are pushing the weight up with you and your lowering it. Then they strip off some plates and you keep going.

Then you get to move onto leg extensions.......

My point is this - almost NONE of us can do this. We can't push that hard. We don't have the pain tolerance or the mental makeup to push past it.

Yes. Dorian did "one hard set."
But his hard set isn't your hard set.
It wasn't just one.
 
DocMike said:
Read up on Mike Mentzer and APRE, and even Pavels Rogoznikov programming
Click to expand...
You can't. You have to watch videos, and if you can find first person accounts.
What you read is rarely what they did, it's NEVER what they did before. And it never accounts for the drugs. Both steroids and coke, speed, weed, etc.
 
Why?
You see a lot of 80/20 from time to time. 80% of the results are from the big exercises. You can invest more time and energy into the last 20% from accessories.

Squat/bench/deadlift and that's 80% of the results right there.
Biceps/triceps/arceps-hard is the other 20%.

The accessories matter... They are just not "as important".
But more is not always better, sometimes more is just more.

Accessory work = more in a good way.
Junk volume = more in a just more way.


How it works (well, this is a couple of books itself so leaving out a few details)
For the individual muscle fiber to grow it has to be:
- stimulated with tension generated by high threshold motorunits,
- a speed (according to the speed/length -relationship) where as many actin-myosin cross bridges as possible are made (that's what makes the force).
- a sufficient volume. (About 10 sets a week).

The science currently tells us that this is made with:
- sets to failure per week (cause that's how the studies are performed) which is about 5-10sets per week
- weight does not matter as long as it is between 1 and 30 repetition Max (RM) (more than that and the musclefibers of high threshold motor units are never stimulated with high enough tension)
- fatigue ,mostly central nervous system (CNS)-fatigue (but also peripheral fatigue), is sort of the enemy cause CNS-fatigue hinders the activation of high threshold motor units)
- avoid muscle damage if possible (you can use the protein to build new muscles instead of repairing broken ones, and muscle damage is linked to fatigue)

The tricks are then in the details. For instance seated hamstringcurls seam better than laying ones. Some muscles require longer muscle lengths (if someone wants to get into details look into strength curves, ascending/descending limb and so on).
Multi joint is more fatigue than single joint.
Multi limb is more fatigue than single limb.
But, Bolton knows this by experience so you don't have to make his old mistakes and get stronger than he was due to it.

A dwarf (you) standing on the shoulders of a Giant (Bolton) can see further than the giant can see himself.

Edit: oh and for someone new, it does not matter. Just get the work in.
 
Last edited:
mrwhy said:
You can't. You have to watch videos, and if you can find first person accounts.
What you read is rarely what they did, it's NEVER what they did before. And it never accounts for the drugs. Both steroids and coke, speed, weed, etc.
Click to expand...
That's fair.
 
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