Kettlebell 24 kg swing form check please

[Strong Rick]

Hello all,
Would you guys mind critiquing my 24 kg form again please. I put up three videos if it helps.... A left and right hand slo-mo video and a left and right regular from my 9 and 10 set of my S+S training this morning.
I've been working hard and want to see if I am making any progress

Left hand slo-mo


Right hand slo-mo


Left and right normal speed


Any and all comments are welcome.
For a little insight I have really focusing on the goblet squats and keeping my back vertical. I have a also even incorporated the stretches after my session in hopes to unlock my hips. I'm obsessed with getting this right! I believe I'm getting better but still have a ways to go.

Thanks in advance

 

[Steve W.]

@Strong Rick,

BTW, no need for slo mo. YouTube allows you watch at half or quarter speed.

Solid overall.

Some fine tuning points:
--Come up to neutral head position at the top. Your neck is flexed forward.
--Hips could still go back more.
--You could still delay the hinge a little more AND delay your reversal out of the hole. Be a little more patient so you can keep your arm locked down to your torso longer through the hinge. Don't waste your hip drive reversing the bell at the bottom. Wait until back swing completes, until you feel like the bell is starting to passively pendulum forward, THEN accelerate it with your hip drive. Keep the arm passive and locked down to the torso for as long as possible on the up swing, until its momentum naturally launches it ballistically. Don't pull with your arm out of the hole. If anything think about pressing the arm down against your body to keep it connected longer (but don't overdo this; it's more of a cue than a literal instruction).
--Working shoulder looks like it could be retracted more, especially as the bell floats.

I'm obsessed with getting this right!

You aren't getting it wrong!

Fine tuning is a never ending rep to rep process, so just stay mindfully engaged and enjoy it.

 

[Strong Rick]

@Strong Rick,

BTW, no need for slo mo. YouTube allows you watch at half or quarter speed.

Solid overall.

Some fine tuning points:
--Come up to neutral head position at the top. Your neck is flexed forward.
--Hips could still go back more.
--You could still delay the hinge a little more AND delay your reversal out of the hole. Be a little more patient so you can keep your arm locked down to your torso longer through the hinge. Don't waste your hip drive reversing the bell at the bottom. Wait until back swing completes, until you feel like the bell is starting to passively pendulum forward, THEN accelerate it with your hip drive. Keep the arm passive and locked down to the torso for as long as possible on the up swing, until its momentum naturally launches it ballistically. Don't pull with your arm out of the hole. If anything think about pressing the arm down against your body to keep it connected longer (but don't overdo this; it's more of a cue than a literal instruction).
--Working shoulder looks like it could be retracted more, especially as the bell floats.


You aren't getting it wrong!

Fine tuning is a never ending rep to rep process, so just stay mindfully engaged and enjoy it.

Thanks @Steve W. for the pointers and things to focus on when I'm training!
funny thing is I don't see it when i watch the video but when you guys bring it up it is obvious...
I did think my shoulder was a little forward when i watched it this morning and you just confirmed that. So again Thanks!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Two things..

1. Finish the lockout with the hip, ensure the hip locks completely

2. Delay the breaking or moving the hip back a little longer on he downswing, obly when your elbow connects or touches your body do you allow the hip to move..

Let me know if this helps

 

[Strong Rick]

Two things..

1. Finish the lockout with the hip, ensure the hip locks completely

2. Delay the breaking or moving the hip back a little longer on he downswing, obly when your elbow connects or touches your body do you allow the hip to move..

Let me know if this helps

Will Do @Mark Limbaga ! Thanks for the advice. I thought I was locking my hips out at the top but after watching back again to what you saw I can see why you say that.
having the video is very helpful

I really do appreciate all of you taking the time to offer suggestions on how I can improve my technique!

 

[Anna C]

Good work Rick, keep it up. Swing improvement is a continuous quest, of which there is no end! My first swing was three and a half years ago, and I'm still working on it. Not only are there endless details and nuances, but as your body changes, your swing will change along with it. Enjoy the process.

Great input above. I noticed one more thing.-- as you come to vertical, it looks like you have a very brief and momentary posterior tilt to the pelvis. I would suggest practicing this slowly (and then increasing towards swing speed), with an imaginary kettlebell, to pattern coming to full lockout with the hip while keeping the pelvis level.

 

[Strong Rick]

Good work Rick, keep it up. Swing improvement is a continuous quest, of which there is no end! My first swing was three and a half years ago, and I'm still working on it. Not only are there endless details and nuances, but as your body changes, your swing will change along with it. Enjoy the process.

Great input above. I noticed one more thing.-- as you come to vertical, it looks like you have a very brief and momentary posterior tilt to the pelvis. I would suggest practicing this slowly (and then increasing towards swing speed), with an imaginary kettlebell, to pattern coming to full lockout with the hip while keeping the pelvis level.

@Anna C Thanks for your insight and comments on my latest swing video.
I must confess... I have watched your 27 minute S+S video in the sticky above at least 4 times this past week looking for little things you do to help with my training.
I am really envious of how straight you back is when you do the goblet squats and am striving to get my back as straight as yours when i do mine.
I tried to widen my stance and BOY I felt it my hips big time when I did that. I am working on pulling myself down into the squat with my back as flat and perpendicular to floor as I can.
I am make small improvements but at least they are improvements!

I also see a little rotation when I begin my back swing but when im doing them i feel nice and square with no rotation.... maybe I am wrong with that self assessment and my little rotation is normal.

the quest continues tomorrow morning!

Thanks again Anna for your comments

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I honestly appreciate your being a very dilligent student

 

[Steve W.]

@Strong Rick,
Next time you practice your goblet squat, in addition to prying with your elbows inside your knees, try putting your elbows on TOP of your knees and pushing down, while trying to raise your chest and elongate your spine.

Another goblet squat prying technique I like is to roll onto the outside edge of each foot (one foot at a time; keep the other foot flat). You may have to do this at a shallower depth than rock bottom, but it will help further open your hips.

 

[Strong Rick]

@Strong Rick,
Next time you practice your goblet squat, in addition to prying with your elbows inside your knees, try putting your elbows on TOP of your knees and pushing down, while trying to raise your chest and elongate your spine.

Another goblet squat prying technique I like is to roll onto the outside edge of each foot (one foot at a time; keep the other foot flat). You may have to do this at a shallower depth than rock bottom, but it will help further open your hips.

@Steve W. thanks for the tip!
My training went less then optimal this morning. I think I had to much stuff going on in my brain and couldn't stay focused... I'm going to try and focus on one thing at at a time and go from there

 

[Strong Rick]

@Anna C ,@Steve W. ,@Mark Limbaga
Training went MUCH BETTER this morning!
Thanks for all the cues.
I tried the elbows on the knees while lengthening my spine on one squat and then separately in another squat trying to roll on to the outside of the foot in the goblets... both tips worked great and from the video I got progressively deeper in the squat all three sets while maintaining a straight back and long spine the whole time.

I worked on delaying my hip hing as all three of you mentioned and I felt way more powerful. The funny thing was my time came down as well! Which was reallly wired because I didn't feel like I was working quicker, I like that!

I worked on keeping my head "pulled back" and not flexed forward and it made a HUGE difference!

You people have great eyes for detail, thanks again!
Now I just have to keep hammering into my daily practice to make it habit and then keep sharpening/ honing it until I can do it without thinking!

I still have some work to do in regards to locking out my hips at the top of the swing but in do time... Rome wasn't built in a night!

One thing I did A LOT yesterday was stand a foot away from the wall and worked on pushing my hips back until I was able to touch the wall while keeping a straight back. While I did that I would simulate my arm going up with the hip snap and not breaking until I hit my body. I know this is going to strange to folks but it clicked in my head that the swing is more timeing than powering through it. That little drill really helped me understand what I was doing... even without a weight in my hand I was hinging early and coming out of the hole early also with my arm without keeping against my body. It really helped but I'm far from a finished product....

I think that drill helped keep my mind focused on the task at hand and got my hips back deeper. I will post another video in a week or so while I work on these improvements

The quest continues!
Thank you so much again!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Keep up the good work.. And if you can, please upload a recent vid so all of us can see the improvement

 

[Strong Rick]

Good morning guys!
Today's video of my training session this morning...
I felt pretty good considering staying up a little latter than normal last night. I feel I have made Some more improvements on my hip hing but still have a ways to go.... also from the video you will see it still kind of looks like I can delay my timing on the back swing a little more. Anyway, that is my novice eye... I turn it over to you guys. As always any and all comments are welcome.

This was round 1 and 2 from S+S session which I am proud to say I knocked out in 5:50 seconds! Ever since I decided to "step back" and REALLY "own it" before moving up the weight it has really opened my eyes to the finer details and and enjoy the process of this.... slowly, but with consistency I will get there.
F.Y.I- my get ups are sub 10 minutes and have been for about 2 weeks with the 24kg. I can't decide if I should go up to the 32 for the get up or wait until I get the 24kg in the swings.... what do you guys think?

Round 1 and 2- 24kg left and right swing 9-24-16

 

[jef]

If you can consistently do your getups under 10 min with the 24kg, and with the hypothesis that your form is correct, then I would suggest to introduce the 32kg as described in S&S (start with something like 24-24-24-32-24 for instance). And keep the 24kg for the swings as long as you feel it necessary.

Both exercises have their own pace, and it is different for everybody. I could swing 10 sets with the 32 relatively comfortably, while doing only one set with the 32 on the getup, not so comfortably!

 

[Anna C]

Yes, great improvement, Rick! I see timing improvement, good hinge and plank, pelvis level as you snap the hips into the plank, good control of the bell. Looks good, keep it up! Keep working on reaching the butt as far back as you can in the hinge - this does change somewhat over time, so just remember to re-visit that cue periodically as your muscles and movement patterns develop. Practicing the wall drill (stand with your back to a wall a foot or so out from the wall, hinge and try to reach your butt back to touch the wall... reposition until you have found the point where your max reach when hinging your butt just touches the wall, practice that max reach for a few reps -- before your swings or even between sets of swings are good times to do a few of these). (Edit -- I see you've already been doing those, as you mentioned above. Always a good thing to work on!)

No reason to delay moving up in weight on get-ups - S&S says move when you are ready on each exercise, no need to keep them in sync. You could always upload a video of your 24kg get-up if you want to make sure it's good.

Great to see your progress!

 

[Strong Rick]

Yes, great improvement, Rick! I see timing improvement, good hinge and plank, pelvis level as you snap the hips into the plank, good control of the bell. Looks good, keep it up! Keep working on reaching the butt as far back as you can in the hinge - this does change somewhat over time, so just remember to re-visit that cue periodically as your muscles and movement patterns develop. Practicing the wall drill (stand with your back to a wall a foot or so out from the wall, hinge and try to reach your butt back to touch the wall... reposition until you have found the point where your max reach when hinging your butt just touches the wall, practice that max reach for a few reps -- before your swings or even between sets of swings are good times to do a few of these). (Edit -- I see you've already been doing those, as you mentioned above. Always a good thing to work on!)

No reason to delay moving up in weight on get-ups - S&S says move when you are ready on each exercise, no need to keep them in sync. You could always upload a video of your 24kg get-up if you want to make sure it's good.

Great to see your progress!

Thanks @Anna C and @jef!
I have also incorporated a stick drill that I put on my head, "T" spine and tail bone and work on hinging while keeping those 3 points touching the stick... That has really helped A LOT also along with the wall drill.
I even videoed the stick drill to see how it looks... I CAN REALLY SEE HOW MUCH MY HIPS MOVE WHEN DOING THAT DRILL..... I strive to replicate that every training session.
I will upload a video of my 24kg get-ups when I get a chance so you all can comment and point out any corrections I could make to refine my training.

The journey continues...

 

[Steve W.]

Thanks @Anna C and @jef!
I have also incorporated a stick drill that I put on my head, "T" spine and tail bone and work on hinging while keeping those 3 points touching the stick... That has really helped A LOT also along with the wall drill.
I even videoed the stick drill to see how it looks... I CAN REALLY SEE HOW MUCH MY HIPS MOVE WHEN DOING THAT DRILL..... I strive to replicate that every training session.
I will upload a video of my 24kg get-ups when I get a chance so you all can comment and point out any corrections I could make to refine my training.

The journey continues...

@Strong Rick
Good job. You're being very intelligently self-aware about your training. "The journey continues" is exactly the right attitude.

One additional thing I still see is some upper back rounding and neck flexion. I suspect the upper back rounding is not just a swing form issue, but a general postural/mobility issue that is very common with the amount of time people spend sitting, looking at computer monitors and other electric devices, etc.

There are a lot of stretches and mobility drills to address this and I think it takes some experimentation to find the ones that click with you and give the most bang for the buck. A few I've found particularly useful are OS rocking and crawling (Tim Anderson's Original Strength YouTube channel has lots of great videos with variations of these), Dan John's Stoney stretch: Stoney and Windmill Stick and the Foundation training "Founder" exercise, and the pump stretch (more or less alternating upward and downward dog). With some of these moves, plus a few others that are harder to describe or reference, incorporating head nods and rotations has been a big key to improving my thoracic spine extenson and getting carry over from the drills to persistent changes in posture and mobility. But like I said, you have to experiment to find what works for you.

 

[Strong Rick]

@Strong Rick
Good job. You're being very intelligently self-aware about your training. "The journey continues" is exactly the right attitude.

One additional thing I still see is some upper back rounding and neck flexion. I suspect the upper back rounding is not just a swing form issue, but a general postural/mobility issue that is very common with the amount of time people spend sitting, looking at computer monitors and other electric devices, etc.

There are a lot of stretches and mobility drills to address this and I think it takes some experimentation to find the ones that click with you and give the most bang for the buck. A few I've found particularly useful are OS rocking and crawling (Tim Anderson's Original Strength YouTube channel has lots of great videos with variations of these), Dan John's Stoney stretch: Stoney and Windmill Stick and the Foundation training "Founder" exercise, and the pump stretch (more or less alternating upward and downward dog). With some of these moves, plus a few others that are harder to describe or reference, incorporating head nods and rotations has been a big key to improving my thoracic spine extenson and getting carry over from the drills to persistent changes in posture and mobility. But like I said, you have to experiment to find what works for you.

Thanks @Steve W. !
I actually have been doing the windmill stick drill before every training session. Along with the squats, halos and hip bridges. I can probably add the rocking in before the S+S warmups to help with my mobility.

I also have been incorporating TRX "I" "Y" and "T" and rows at the end of my swings and getups before I do the 2 stretches that are in the simple and sinister book to help work the back side of my shoulders and "pull me" back up straight and less "hunched over"

I will look into the others you have mentioned and work them in to my routine as well.

You mentioned this before a couple of weeks ago and I have been working on my thoracic mobility since it was identified as a point to work on,,,, I suppose this willl take a while to improve. Gives me something focus on and an area that needs to be addressed.

I appreciate your time and suggestions to my posts!

 

[Steve W.]

Thanks @Steve W. !

I also have been incorporating TRX "I" "Y" and "T" and rows at the end of my swings and getups...

,,,, I suppose this willl take a while to improve. Gives me something focus on and an area that needs to be addressed.

Do try the Stoney stretch from that other thread that included the windmill stick, if you haven't already.

Developing better thoracic extension/changing posture is definitely a process -- I have never seen or experienced a quick fix. I did boatload of I, Y and T drills rehabbing from shoulder surgery (with light dumbbells, lying prone on a table), and can honestly say they did nothing for me. Here's a band pull apart sequence that I think addresses some of the same issues, but that I feel has been a lot more effective for me:

Band Pull-Apart Super Series for Healthy Shoulders

 

[JamesO]

2. Delay the breaking or moving the hip back a little longer on he downswing, obly when your elbow connects or touches your body do you allow the hip to move..

I noticed one more thing.-- as you come to vertical, it looks like you have a very brief and momentary posterior tilt to the pelvis. I would suggest practicing this slowly (and then increasing towards swing speed), with an imaginary kettlebell, to pattern coming to full lockout with the hip while keeping the pelvis level.

Question for you guys. These are both issues in my swing as well. Aside from spotting the issue, do you have strategies for working on them? I really like @Anna C's tip about working through the motion slowly without a bell. Would this be enough to pattern that tilt out?