Kettlebell 24 kg swing form check please

[Anna C]

Would this be enough to pattern that tilt out?

I don't know for sure, but I'd be quite interested to hear a report back on whether the slow movement patterning of the coming into plank has a positive effect on the swing. In theory it should work. Let us know if it does in practice! As for the delaying the breaking of the hips on the downswing, I did see that improve a swing at my cert. The instructor had the SFG candidate do a slow pattern swing without a kettlebell, and as she was lowering her arms he gave a tactile cue by touching her hip (or shoulder, I forget) as to when to hinge. So she was to hold the plank as the arms lowered until she felt that cue, then break. It was when the arms were about halfway down, at a 45 degree angle to the body. Try the slow patterning there too, I think it can help. Then practice with a light kettlebell. Also, feel that 4-count that Pavel M. described - the swing is not a 2-count movement (1-up, 2-down) but a 4-count movement (1-hip drive, 2-plank while kettlebell floats up, 3-hold plank while kettlebell descends most of the way down, 4-hinge while kettelbell moves all the way back in the hinge. I may have that slightly different than he described it, but similar concept... feeling those different "counts" in the swing will help you find the delay in the hinge.

 

[Strong Rick]

@Anna C i have found that the slow swing without a bell to be the trick for me. I call them "dry run" swings. When I started doing them( last week) I found that my hip would break "Early" just by doing those.... it is crazy but they work with timing the swing and the hip hing,,,, at least for me- and I still have a long way to go. I also do my "dry run" swings a foot away from the wall and work on getting my butt to tap the wall along with all the timing of my hing and that seems to working so far.... but I have a long way to go and it easy to to make "Large jumps" when I'm bad at something. It is when I get to finer points is when you have to pick the "fly sh*t out of the pepper" sort of speak to make advancements.

@Steve W. I have read my original strength book again today along with my original strength restoration book and the tip on rocking and I paired it with head knods has REALLY been hitting my thoracic spine area. I have been trying to do the rocking and head knods throughout the day from time to time and hopefully I see improvements by next weekends video test. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

For #2, really wait and feel the elbow connect before moving or drill the towel swing

 

[JamesO]

Thanks, Anna I saw Jeff Sokol doing some slow patterning on Insta the other day (link) and thought it looked like a good thing to start practicing. I really appreciate the time you've taken in answering.

 

[Strong Rick]

Yes, great improvement, Rick! I see timing improvement, good hinge and plank, pelvis level as you snap the hips into the plank, good control of the bell. Looks good, keep it up! Keep working on reaching the butt as far back as you can in the hinge - this does change somewhat over time, so just remember to re-visit that cue periodically as your muscles and movement patterns develop. Practicing the wall drill (stand with your back to a wall a foot or so out from the wall, hinge and try to reach your butt back to touch the wall... reposition until you have found the point where your max reach when hinging your butt just touches the wall, practice that max reach for a few reps -- before your swings or even between sets of swings are good times to do a few of these). (Edit -- I see you've already been doing those, as you mentioned above. Always a good thing to work on!)

No reason to delay moving up in weight on get-ups - S&S says move when you are ready on each exercise, no need to keep them in sync. You could always upload a video of your 24kg get-up if you want to make sure it's good.

Great to see your progress!

@Anna C here is my left and right get-up from this morning.... let know your me thoughts.
Any and all comments are welcome.

24 kg left and right get-up

 

[Anna C]

Looks great, Rick! No major problems.

2 small hints/tips (not corrections), 1) emphasize a slow, controlled roll-down from elbow to back at the end (you'll get more ab benefit), and 2) from kneeling to standing, be sure to use both legs for the work of moving to standing (first one looks good, second looks like it might be the front leg/quad doing most of the work), keeping the hips tight and level as you do that.

 

[Miguel]

Sir,

+1 to Ms @Anna C ,

One tip that I learned from Al Ciampa...
"Instead of windshield wiping the down leg, and adding wear and tear on the knees, just face your body in the same direction as your knee and get up.."

I can't find Al's video of it anymore. So once you are on your knee, turn your torso until your entire body is oriented in the same direction as your down knee. In the video, you would end up standing facing either side, not the camera or the shelving. Once upright, reach your "down leg" back for the reverse lunge, silent knee remains the same. Instead of "sitting" and sliding the nonworking hand along the body, you will end up doing more of a windmill. Look at the bell, post on your hand and foot, and slide your leg slightly angled to put you back in the same sitting orientation as you began (in line with the mat).

Lots of words, feel free to ignore them if your knee doesn't bother you. =]
Like I said sir, a tip, not a correction.

 

[Strong Rick]

Sir,

+1 to Ms @Anna C ,

One tip that I learned from Al Ciampa...
"Instead of windshield wiping the down leg, and adding wear and tear on the knees, just face your body in the same direction as your knee and get up.."

I can't find Al's video of it anymore. So once you are on your knee, turn your torso until your entire body is oriented in the same direction as your down knee. In the video, you would end up standing facing either side, not the camera or the shelving. Once upright, reach your "down leg" back for the reverse lunge, silent knee remains the same. Instead of "sitting" and sliding the nonworking hand along the body, you will end up doing more of a windmill. Look at the bell, post on your hand and foot, and slide your leg slightly angled to put you back in the same sitting orientation as you began (in line with the mat).

Lots of words, feel free to ignore them if your knee doesn't bother you. =]
Like I said sir, a tip, not a correction.

Thanks for the tips @Anna C and @Miguel!

@Miguel- I will give this a shot and see how it feels. Sounds a little confusing when I read it but might be easier when I actually do it.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Sir,

+1 to Ms @Anna C ,

One tip that I learned from Al Ciampa...
"Instead of windshield wiping the down leg, and adding wear and tear on the knees, just face your body in the same direction as your knee and get up.."

That's how I do 'em.

 

[Miguel]

Sounds a little confusing when I read it but might be easier when I actually do it.

Sir, 1 KEY thing that I forgot (hangs head in shame...)
On the way down, once you are posted on your down hand, down knee and FOOT, it is imperative to "open the gate" and move that "up" leg out and to the side of your working arm (the one holding the bell). Moving the "up" leg will create the space necessary to slide back to high sit.

I sincerely apologize for any confusion this may have caused. And a word of caution: it is best to practice this change holding either air or a light shoe, Not a bell, no matter how small.

 

[Strong Rick]

Sir, 1 KEY thing that I forgot (hangs head in shame...)
On the way down, once you are posted on your down hand, down knee and FOOT, it is imperative to "open the gate" and move that "up" leg out and to the side of your working arm (the one holding the bell). Moving the "up" leg will create the space necessary to slide back to high sit.

I sincerely apologize for any confusion this may have caused. And a word of caution: it is best to practice this change holding either air or a light shoe, Not a bell, no matter how small.

@Miguel - I tried it this way this morning and it felt very different. Not sure I like it more or not but at least it gives me options... Thanks for the tip!

 

[Strong Rick]

Hey guys I have been working the past week and I think I made some improvements on my swing.... it is nowhere near a finished product and from my reading I doubt it ever will be.

Anyways please offer up any suggestions or make any notes where you see improvements or possibly regression....

24 kg swing left and right rounds 2 and 3
*please ignore the LOUD noise in the back- my kids were playing some iPod game while I was training and I couldn't edit it out*

 

[Anna C]

Wow, much snappier! You are developing better coordination, more power, and better technique. Looks great -- keep at it. (you are right, it's never a finished product )

 

[Strong Rick]

Wow, much snappier! You are developing better coordination, more power, and better technique. Looks great -- keep at it. (you are right, it's never a finished product )

Thanks @Anna C !
I felt strong today, and really worked on getting my hips back. From the looks of it, my hips can still drop back a little more but it is progress.

I have found what helps me keep my arm from coming out of the hole early is by thinking about holding it against my body and only letting release from body is at the end of the hip snap. It is just how my brain understands it.

I have to figure out how to figure out how to not break my hinge to early also.... that whole "play chicken with the bell" thing. I understand it completely but trying to get my mind around it and the timing will take some work.

As always...The journey continues!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Thanks @Anna C !
I felt strong today, and really worked on getting my hips back. From the looks of it, my hips can still drop back a little more but it is progress.

I have found what helps me keep my arm from coming out of the hole early is by thinking about holding it against my body and only letting release from body is at the end of the hip snap. It is just how my brain understands it.

I have to figure out how to figure out how to not break my hinge to early also.... that whole "play chicken with the bell" thing. I understand it completely but trying to get my mind around it and the timing will take some work.

As always...The journey continues!

Looking real good Sir.

You're already articulating most of the tips I might give. As far as the drop into hinge, the more you swing, the more you'll get into actively hinging - the momentum of the KB will factor less and less in terms of driving your form as you'll have it under muscle guidance the entire time. Maybe focus on seriously engaging the abs from the top down into the bottom of the hinge, that's all I got.

If I saw you at the local gym executing just as the latest video, I'd give it a thumb's up. In fact at my closest gym you'd be in a small and very elite company with form like that.

 

[Strong Rick]

Looking real good Sir.

You're already articulating most of the tips I might give. As far as the drop into hinge, the more you swing, the more you'll get into actively hinging - the momentum of the KB will factor less and less in terms of driving your form as you'll have it under muscle guidance the entire time. Maybe focus on seriously engaging the abs from the top down into the bottom of the hinge, that's all I got.

If I saw you at the local gym executing just as the latest video, I'd give it a thumb's up. In fact at my closest gym you'd be in a small and very elite company with form like that.

WOW... Thanks @North Coast Miller!
I will try that for tomorrows training, Thanks for the tip.

 

[Strong Rick]

Hey guys, its been a few weeks since I posted a "swing check" post so I wanted to give you an update...

Although I haven't been posting very much I have been working hard. So far this month I have 2100 swings in and all the get ups.
Swings have been one hand and with my 24
Get-ups have been with my 24 and have been working in my 32 as of late. Right now reps 1-4 are with the 24 and reps 5-8 are with the 32 and reps 9 and 10 are back to 24 for my get-ups.

I feel I'm progressing nicely but I would like your opinions please.

Just a note. I have switched over to my gym boss interval timer to keep me on track during my sings. About every week or so i compress the rest period by :05 seconds and right now I'm on 20 work / 20 rest( that is the beep you hear in the background)

Again I feel good and I just had my blood test from yearly doctor appointment and all my numbers were great! I was happy about that!
Goes to show you that hard work and determination really pay off! It is not over by any means but a step in the right direction...

Any way here is my round 5 and 6 from this mornings training session. my timing seemed a little off this morning with arm coming out away from my body out of the hole and my hips felt like they were breaking to early but I fight that every session.... I really have to focus and slow myself down to get that right. However when I do get it right, it feels awesome and I know it instantly. Enough rambling here you go! Any all comments are welcome, please don't be shy...*I think

The quest continues for my perfect swing... until than I will keep working hard!
Thanks in advance for all you help everyone!

 

[Anna C]

Looks very good.

I would definitely suggest a longer rest interval for your swings -- not sure if you meant that you do that 20 / 20 for your daily practice, or just once a week, but I would suggest just doing it once every two weeks to see where you are with the timing. Other days, more like 40-50 sec rest between sets of swings. Monitor your breath and go when you're really breathing easy again. Work on deep breathing (re-read S&S p. 66-68, "Secrets of Breath Mastery") and shake out the tension ("fast and loose") between sets.

The basics of the swing all look good to me: hinge, shoulder pack, arms, head position, plank.... Continue to work on sitting back (hips back) on the backswing, you're headed in the right direction.

You might try to adjust the exhale on the upswing to be a bit earlier; yours seems to be a the top of the swing, but you'll get more benefit if you put your forceful exhale on the hip snap, right as you're coming into the plank. Along with that, try to find that "throw" of the bell, a concentrated power application as it's coming up through your legs and you snap to plank.

Hope that helps. Nice work!!!

 

[Strong Rick]

Thanks for the input @Anna C
To answer your question, I was doing the 20/20 for my daily practice.... I thought this would help "inch" my way closer to "owning" the bell.
As usual, I tend to over think things and make it more complicated than it needs to be. I will slow down the intervals in my daily practice.
I haven't tested since 10/1/16 and was going to test this Saturday to see where I am.
I will start working on these suggestions starting tomorrow morning.

 

[Steve Freides]

To answer your question, I was doing the 20/20 for my daily practice.... I thought this would help "inch" my way closer to "owning" the bell.

May I suggest a different approach?

Try a new set of swings with an interval you know is longer than you need, e.g., start a new set every 90 seconds. Go through an entire set of 10 x 10 that way and with a purpose - you want to understand and remember what complete recovery between sets feels like.

The next workout, look at the clock and if, at 75 seconds, you feel that same complete recovery you felt at 90 second the previous workout, then continue at 75 seconds for subsequent sets. Switch back to 90 seconds during the workout if you feel your recovery is being to be compromised and finish that way.

Stick with 75 seconds until you can do it all the way through a 10 x 10, then try 60 seconds with the same approach - do it as long as you are fully recovered, switch to 75 seconds as needed.

From there, if you wish to continue to lower, I would switch to 5- (or 10-) second differences.

Adjust all the above as you feel works best for you, e.g., go from 90 to 60 by :10 increments instead of :15, or start at 120 seconds.

The philosophy here is to surprise yourself by what you "own" when you try shorter rests and still feel good. Do this rather than pushing yourself harder; instead, look to notice when your same workout is getting easier.

In sum:

Start with a rest period you know is more than sufficient for complete recovery.

Shorten the rest period only when doing so does _not_ compromise recovery.

Adjust on the fly as needed (e.g., if you're having a bad/weak/tired/sick day, go with longer rests for a day or longer until you are back to your old self again.)

-S-