Other/Mixed Sandbags and GtG

[Drew Wadford]

Just a speculative question from someone relatively new to these concepts.
Presume an existing curriculum, like S&S.
I'm curious about the value of adding sandbag lifts, in the SPIRIT of GtG, to a foundational strength program. Say clean and press, for example. Perhaps carries, though I know this isn't limit strength work.
Essentially, I wonder if you could borrow the core concept of frequent training while fresh at sub-maximal levels to develop the ability to do like activities in real life. Greasing a wider groove, so to speak. Since an implement like sandbags doesn't allow for a very specific groove, does it make it possible to train the brain's capacity to do "all things press-like," and as such effect daily life for people with no specific strength-sport goals. To put it more succinctly, can you apply neurological training to odd object lifting to get better at lifting all objects, or does it dilute the concept to meaninglessness?
Thanks!

 

[Steve Freides]

@Drew Wadford, welcome to StrongFirst!

-S-

 

[Drew Wadford]

And, to be clear...
My goals in this are to specifically impact my performance at my job, which is by-and-large warehouse lifting (grocery store.)
Some of the ideals of these two training programs (gtg and s&s) seem like they would transfer well... essentially I can't be "sore" and do my job very well.
I adapted to lifting like this early on, but then the adaptation stops. I would like to keep progressing so that work becomes easier (both in perception and in long-term injury prevention.)
clean and press and carries are the closest "gym lifts" to what I do at work.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

@Drew Wadford Yes, odd object or unconventional training tools definitely stimulate the CNS in a supplemental way to support conventional lifts.

Many traditional periodization training programs will conform to using the SAID principle to support desired goals and will not address unconventional lifts such as with sandbags.

Although, in my experience adding these lifts (and Kettlebells of course) train the body in a unique way that ultimately yields better results with fewer injuries and increased mental toughness.

 

[Drew Wadford]

So far I've found that I really enjoy a reps for time sort of practice with sandbags. It feels like they do an especially good job of punching the energy systems in the snout.
But I'm curious about using them in a "several sessions throughout the day while fresh," type of model... even if calling that GtG might be reaching a bit.

 

[Kozushi]

Lifting up boxes to put on a shelf sounds a lot like a clean and press movement. The "Enter the Kettlebell" book by Pavel focusses on this movement in particular.

 

[JeffC]

What kind, and weight or sandbag are you training with?

I have plenty of experience with heavy sandbags. I have a few navy sea bags filled with wood pellets, pea gravel, and a 50/50 mix of both.

 

[Drew Wadford]

I use plain sacks (like sea bags,) and I have been using deer corn lately (doesn't get as "brick hard" as sand proper.)
I have a few, and weights from 50 lbs to 150 (can't do much with that one yet)

 

[JeffC]

I do sandbags or keg lifting combined with kettlebell and barbell lifting. I do heavy and moderate weights.

A good exercise for me is 3x3-5@105kg, and AMRAP@70kg as finisher, all loaded to a platform, or over a bar set at sternum height. Usually on a deadlift focused day.

Have never tried a GTG approach to sandbag training, but it should work. Do a few heavy reps throughout the day, staying away from fatigue.

 

[Drew Wadford]

105kg sandbag?!?! woah. I don't know the forum rules about cursing yet, or blasphemy... so I'll steer clear of my comments. I'm not in good shape, but I'm 235 and lift stuff a lot at work, and I can barely break a 200 lb bag off the ground much less do anything meaningful with it. I loaded one up to 200lbs one time and then PROMPTLY emptied out and got real.
Right now 100lbs is about realistic for 3 reps throughout the day (c+p.)
Yeah, I'm curious if essentially GtG throughout the day and AMRAP training would mix well with sandbags as a primary implement, and on some speculative level I'm interested in what the "native" programming for bags ought to be... but that's just for fun and idle curiosity. Honestly, I just like them a lot and they make sense to me.
Thanks! Perhaps I'll experiment.

 

[kodo kb]

Hi Drew! First, I think you'd find a lot of value out of Steve Justa's book Rock, Iron, Steel. He frequently talks about whatever training method he's presenting helped out (or didn't) with respect to the multitude of manual labor jobs he's had. (A surprising useful one is isometrics!) He also has a keg program that could easily be used with a sandbag instead. Also, it's just a great book on training in general.

To answer your main question though, GTG is more about doing heavy, frequent, perfect, fresh practice than it is about a particular groove. I mean, people who follow that program get strong all over and are able to use their new found strength/tension-ability in many different exercises, so I'm sure doing a couple heavy sets a day would be a beneficial supplement to your S&S training.

Just be aware your S&S progress might slow, and you might need to take more days off than you have been. Listen to your body.

 

[JamesCoupal]

Hi all. I am not sure if it's the proper thread to ask my questions... Sorry if it is not. I'm new to sandbag and I wonder what would be an average weight to start with. I'm 5'10" and weight about 185 lbs. I've loaded 30 kg (3 contractor bags with about 10 kg each) of sand in a drybag and it felt a lot heavier than the equivalent in bumper plates on a barbell...

 

[william bad butt]

Although I haven't used it recently, I have a 125 or 135 lb bag I made years ago. I just liked carrying it around (loaded carry). Over the shoulder or bear hug or zercher grip. As I walked with it, I would occasionally do presses.
To me a sandbag starts out as a great strength training implement. Then once you adapt to it it becomes a great conditioning tool.

 

[offwidth]

Hi all. I am not sure if it's the proper thread to ask my questions... Sorry if it is not. I'm new to sandbag and I wonder what would be an average weight to start with. I'm 5'10" and weight about 185 lbs. I've loaded 30 kg (3 contractor bags with about 10 kg each) of sand in a drybag and it felt a lot heavier than the equivalent in bumper plates on a barbell...

James, perhaps you could tell us a bit more about your training and what your goals are. That might help some of us frame a better answer to your questions.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Sandback training on a GTG base is an excellent way to train core and grip because it is an "odd" object which moves a lot. I used it a lot with good results.

Related to the weight, it dépends on what you want to do: strength, conditioning, etc... For ballistic moves, I used from 20 to 25kg (I weigh 60). For strength, as heavy as you can with proper form.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[JamesCoupal]

Thanks for your replies. I try to train my strength about 2 to 3 times a week. For the last couple years, I have done mainly barbell : squats and deadlift alternating with rows and presses, cycling 6 weeks of moderate weight in sets of 8-10 reps to 4 weeks of heavy weight in sets of 4-6 reps. I recently incorporated the kettlebells about a year ago. I use them for warming up with light getups, then for my presses and rows and I finish each training 10 minutes of light swings or cleans and squats. Since my son is born, I try to spend more time at home. My goal would be to stay in good shape by training from home with a sandbag and a couple of kettlebells. Tonight I added handles to my bag and it made a huge difference, now 30 kg feels too light for the deadlift and about ok for the front squats (8-12 reps). I might need multiple bags with different weights...

 

[TravisDirks]

I recall that Martin Jancsics, a pretty awesome stone lifter, keeps a heavy,but comfortable sandbag by his door and does a few lifts every time he goes in or out. I think he talks about it here: Martin Jancsics-Introduction-#537 - Motivation & Muscle

 

[offwidth]

Thanks for your replies. I try to train my strength about 2 to 3 times a week. For the last couple years, I have done mainly barbell : squats and deadlift alternating with rows and presses, cycling 6 weeks of moderate weight in sets of 8-10 reps to 4 weeks of heavy weight in sets of 4-6 reps. I recently incorporated the kettlebells about a year ago. I use them for warming up with light getups, then for my presses and rows and I finish each training 10 minutes of light swings or cleans and squats. Since my son is born, I try to spend more time at home. My goal would be to stay in good shape by training from home with a sandbag and a couple of kettlebells. Tonight I added handles to my bag and it made a huge difference, now 30 kg feels too light for the deadlift and about ok for the front squats (8-12 reps). I might need multiple bags with different weights...

Personally I think that adding handles defeats the purpose of sandbag training to a degree. (But that's just me) I suppose it depends on what drills you are doing and what your objectives are. Have fun with them...

 

[pet']

Hello,

The good thing about sandbag is using it without handle because it "moves" and also works on grip and stabilization muscles (including the ones of the arms)

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[JamesCoupal]

Hi again folks. It's been a couple weeks now that I train with sandbags. Here are some points I find great about training with Sandbags 1. The weight is "alive"; the sand moves inside the bag and thus every rep is different. I find it builds toughness, resilience and confidence at the same time. 2. It definitely makes a good tool for "nervous system conditioning à la GTG" : e.g.: I leave a 35 lb bag below the staircase and shoulder carry it every time I go up or down the stairs. Does that qualify as GTG? Seems simillar to Pavel's father in law doing chinups every time he cossed a doorway. 3. Because they are "soft" (compared to kettlebells at least), a sandbag makes the perfect tool for a high intensity interval training. You can shoulder , carry, press, swing and it won't injure you when it lands on you. I have been using my 60 lb bag on a 12 reps / 20 seconds rest circuit and it simply fills my nervous system full of stamina juice! Lastly, I would say that handles are nice to have but not absolutely necessary, I now almost only use them to clean the bag in a zercher front squat and for front presses and try to train my grip strength as much as possible. All that said, my home made solution is a bit sketchy and the internals are already leaking sand... I am thinking about buying one online. Any suggestions? Cheers!