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Old Forum Breathing Tips?

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Anna C

Anna C

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Thanks to Harald's attention to breathing during S&S, I've been re-focusing on deep breaths and recovery breathing during training, and that definitely helps.  But I recently realized that my breathing the rest of the time is not great, when I read this in my NASM-CPT textbook about anxiety breathing pattern: "The breathing pattern becomes more shallow, using the secondary respiratory muscles more predominantly than the diaphragm.  This shallow, upper-chest breathing pattern becomes habitual, causing overuse to the secondary respiratory muscles such as the scalenes, sternocleidomastoid, levator scapulae, and upper trapezius."

These are muscles that I always have trouble with, as far as tension and trigger points.  I wonder, could this be connected?  I think I tend to be a chest-breather, when I'm not paying attention.  My desk job probably does not help either, though I have an adjustable stand-up desk and try to stand for at least a portion of the day.

Does anyone have any tips on how to improve one's habitual breathing pattern throughout the day?
 
Hi Anna,

zen-meditaion (zazen) helped me a great deal with my breathing. An integral part of most schools concerning mediation is a.) posture and b.) deep diaphragmatic breathing. One does not work without the other - quite similar to most StrongFirst principles, I guess.  Plus once I got used to that kind of breathing in my meditaion-practice, it found its way into  my "everyday-breathing". Worked for me, but you have to invest quite some time...
 
Anna i totally agree with Christian. Zazen is as simple as a practice can get....

Another strategy i imagine would be a bit inspired by creasing the groove. Most of us here know an important aspect of  this concept: to get better, to learn a new skill or brake with an old habit, you have to practice often, throughout the day, every day without straining. You could make it a habit to practice a little abdominal breathing maybe every say hour or two (if you have a smart phone you could youse a timer which reminds you with a discrete sound or through vibration)

Or you could anchor your mind to remind yourself on breathing when for example every time you go through a door, or  your or the phone of somebody else is ringing. You need a signal (anchor) which happens quite often during your day to remind you. Seek your own signal and imagine youself practicing a little bit when it occurs.

with accumulated time of practice you (or your nervous system) will do it more and more automatically.
 
This has been a topic of interest for me as of late. I swear I read something from Iron Tamer talking about breath control on this site somewhere. It was something along the lines of inhale slowly for 30, hold 30, and exhale for 30. Was just searching for that the other day and could not find it.
 
Hey Anna, I've been attempting to work on the same thing for the past 6 months. You could work the straw breathing in the book. I've noticed that by constantly monitoring my posture throughout the day, it also makes me remember to belly breathe.

Also, when I'm driving, I use Bas Rutten's O2 Trainer. It forces you to belly breathe or you'll be unable to use the device. I bought mine on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Official-Bas-Rutten-O2Trainer-Green
 
Nosebreathing jogging.  It's in the "Victor" section of Easy Strength.  Read John Douillard if you have the patience for New Agey fluff.
 
Thanks guys, those are great ideas.  Meditation, yes... a daily practice.  I guess that is the way to work on any skill.  I did that for a year or so, but that was a while ago so I should definitely bring that back.  It has so many benefits.  These days I can't seem to talk myself into spending the time on it, but maybe if I have this to work on I'll feel like I have a reason to.  Harald, I like the anchor idea.  I was more aware today just because I was thinking about it, and did find I was able to reset the pattern, relax, and breathe deeper, dropping some upper body tension in the process.  So an anchor would help me continue to stay concious of it.

Arryn, that 02 Trainer looks interesting - I found a youtube video on it.  I could do while driving.  Do you feel like that has helped you?  Do you ever use it when exercising?
 
I really like the book breath perception by Dr. Kipfer, it's 260 days of breathing exercises.

I find that it gives me a good sampling of breathing practices so that I can integrate the ones that really connect with me into my life.

The nice part is that it only takes me @ 10 minutes in the morning to practice the days exercise.
 
Just remembered the "Victor" section is here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffourhourworkweek.com%2F2011%2F12%2F06%2Fthe-painless-path-to-endurance-plus-breville-winner-and-more%2F&ei=www_Var_B9HFogSGx4GYDg&usg=AFQjCNGPQXFG06P_m7qLJksImLgDN6OApg&sig2=YIyOYLV9BIVUnw3C05tmhw

What's ironic is that sedentary people often get into the chest-breathing pattern, when it's real logic is as a temporary emergency option for athletic people.

Anna, thanks for reminding me;  I meant to ask the forum members this:  If nosebreathing jogging is already in your program, does the Breath Mastery section of S & S still apply?  Or are swings so inherently intense you might as well go with it and mouth breathe?  Thanks all!
 
I've been meaning to ask for a while - has anyone any experience when you nose-breathe but your nostrils get sucked closed as your breathing is too deep (like in a sprint)?

Obviously opening the mouth helps - but that's not nose breathing...?
 
I actually started using the o2 trainer during swings and get ups. I like it as it makes me breathing deeply and more calmly. The o2 Trainer makes breathing in more difficult,  but doesn't inhibit breathing out.

 

To practice breathing I once just put a belt around my belly to focus on breathing. You also could just lay on your belly and breath into your belly.

 

Good luck!
 
Anna, if I'm consistent with it, I do notice an improvement in not just belly breathing, but it also helps me when I'm doing something intense: swings, running, sparring, etc. When I remember, I use it when I do swings, but on a lower setting. Deep breaths are relaxing, and using this when swinging really calms me down between sets.

Matt H., it would be better not to suck air when swinging. Sharp nose inhale on the way down and grunt or yell at the top. And try to nose breathing between swing sets.
 
Anna, I recommend a visit to this web site:

http://advancedbuteyko.com

The Buteyko breathing method has worked wonders for me, and you will find things in common with some of the breathing suggestions Pavel has made in S&S and elsewhere.

As shown on the site, Master SFG Péter Lakatos and I are teachers of this method.   By practicing the Buteyko method you will learn to relax your breathing muscles.

-S-
 
Well, I put an order in for the O2 trainer. I will add my own review in here in a couple of weeks or so with the device. Just started swimming recently and when doing freestyle I struggle to breathe correctly so I feel like I will have a good gauge. Really hoping this device works. I can nose breathe jog outside on uneven terrain and do 100 swings in 5 with a 24kg without breathing through my mouth. Kind of shocked me that I'm struggling in the pool.
 
I ordered an O2 trainer also.  I'm a sucker for training devices.  At least I know my kettlebells will stand the test of time!  Anyway, I might try it when training at home.  I can't see using it at the gym.  Though in the process of researching all this I did figure out what the weird device one guy was breathing through one day - an altitude trainer.

Also ordered the Breath Perception book - thanks, Jon.

Matt, that's an interesting article.  I like the part about focusing on the process, not the result.  And the race where the winner was finish time + heart rate + (breath rate x 3)

Steve, thanks for the link on Buteyko breathing.  If you have any additional info, could you email me?  anna0067@gmail.com  Thanks

 
 
Sir, I must admit, I had not actually done the straw breathing!  (Why is it that we sometimes feel we've done something, just because we read and understood the instructions?)

But I saw your question just as I was heading out to a lunchtime yoga class, so I stopped by the gas station and got 3 straws from the soda counter to bring with me.  Savasana time, I tried one straw, then two, then three.  I found it to be quite a pleasant experience.  Something about the way the airflow is regulated on the inhale and the exhale is very soothing.  And of course, it encourages the deep breaths to ensure adequate fresh air.

I will practice this.  Thank you!
 
Wesker: "inhale slowly for 30, hold 30, and exhale for 30" is like a 1/2 BW on arm press. With training and patience most people can get there, but jumping straight into it will bring more frustration than results.

I practice and teach a method called Hoshin Tao Chi Kung. Wim Hof also has some remarkable exercises that are simple and effective. I haven't any knowledge on Buteyeko method, so I cannot speak on it, but what I have learned works extremely  well.

 
 
Anna, the "very soothing" effect you describe, which Pavel calls "surreal calm" in S&S, is due to increased level of CO2 in your blood.  This is something we discuss in the breathing method I mentioned  earlier - created by a Russian (naturally!!) scientist - and which you may read about on that web site.

Or you may google the Bohr Effect.   Most of what you'll find is rather scientific in nature, but the Bohr effect essentially disproves the common assumption that breathing well means
getting more oxygen into your lungs - this is essentially backwards from what most people need to do in order to breath better overall.

-S-
 
Tamer, that sounds like an excellent practice. Thank you for telling us a little about it.

In Advance Buteyko (and, yes, the Advanced version is different), we try to get everyone to be able to exhale normally, close their mouth and pinch their nose shut, and sit quietly for 60 seconds without any undue stress or sense of needing to breath. Most people test initially at around 15 seconds. (Those who test highly are usually cheating the test somehow, either by toughing it out longer or by moving around, which makes it easier.) When we use moving around and other techniques to increase the time, we go up to two minutes.

It is “simple but not easy” to achieve these kind of numbers, much like as Tamer says, as it is to achieve the 1/2 bw standing one arm kettlebell strict press.

-S-
 
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