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Kettlebell How are you pacing your S&S

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You should not use a clock except when testing.

There is a correlation between ventilation rate (VR) and heart rate. There is a looser correlation between between PER and HR.

What I said was that the HR "as a limit" is not the best metric to guide KB ballistic sessions, but you should still monitor it, IMO. If you're breathing through your mouth, you don't yet need to worry about HR.

Every endurance/conditioning training session, whether it be running, S&S, biking, A+A, etc; requires some sort of feedback until the user understands how to gauge the proper intensity by feel. Otherwise, chances are that you will be training too hard. "No pain, no gain" still permeates most folks' minds.

Peter said:
Should I really be too concerned about exceeding the MAF limit in my daily S&S practice?
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"If" the MAF formula applies to you, your swing sets should not cause your heart to jump too much higher than your MAF. But IMO, VR supersedes HR for an S&S session. If you're new to KB ballistics, you should see your HR drop while VR stays the same.
 
@ciampa - is "breathing through your mouth" supposed to read "breathing through your nose"? apologies if i misunderstood the intent/context of your comment.

the ventilation / heart rate correlation is pretty interesting to me as i often use nose breathing as the main " governer" on runs and rucks. very roughly, a poor man's Polar.

thx and rgrds,
 
RichJ said:
is "breathing through your mouth" supposed to read "breathing through your nose"?
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No. Its correct as written... if you're mouth breathing your way through a training session, the first focus is to lock down nasal breathing; then, you can worry about HR.

Thanks for the spot check.
 
ahh - got it - nose breathing as your first gate, so to speak, on the way to getting things under control. heart rate being a bit further down the path.

thx v/m
 
Thanks for the reminder, @aciampa - I will try to work on this and just let my HR monitor ... well just monitor. I have noticed that sometimes recently, I felt ready to begin again before my self imposed limit of waiting until the monitor read my target (<110) - even after I increased my target to <120 - I still feel it on some sets.
 
@offwidth Based off some reading on here and some replies I got in my intro thread - I came up with 110 initially as that was the point I felt fully recovered between sets of swings. Then this past week, it started feeling like too much rest, so I raised it to 120. No science or more logic than that - I just wanted a simple method to help me not "beat the clock" like I was mistakenly doing in every workout when I first started - so while I let my watch time the workout, I only have the HR displayed.
 
Bonkin said:
@offwidth Based off some reading on here and some replies I got in my intro thread - I came up with 110 initially as that was the point I felt fully recovered between sets of swings. Then this past week, it started feeling like too much rest, so I raised it to 120. No science or more logic than that - I just wanted a simple method to help me not "beat the clock" like I was mistakenly doing in every workout when I first started - so while I let my watch time the workout, I only have the HR displayed.
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Okay. I was just curious. You won't go wrong if you follow Al's suggestions either.
 
Benedictine Monk said:
Does anyone have a link to heart rate monitors?
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For some reason, I never liked the chest strap required for heart rate monitors and was hoping technology had advanced
to the point where the wrist device acts like a meat thermometer so I don't have to suffer the distraction of the chest monitor
(I don't know why but I really hate the chest monitor).
 
I'm sorry to beat the dead horse but am I reading this thread right that you could get way with just moving to nasal breathing first,
then achieving 1 nasal breath for every 2 reps (for the swing that is) and get away with NOT using a heart rate monitor?

I'm not sure if these work as is for the TGU, of course.
 
I think you could do the nasal breathing fine, but use it to learn how to accurately gauge your physiological state from it. The math ratio is a guideline for being ready for the next stage. The HRM, etc. are all good ways to learn your own body's responses- once you do this, you've always got your metric built right into you. Have you done the straw breathing from S&S? Breathing is good because there's a sort of "panic" response built into not getting enough...breathing through the nose is good for stressing you a little if you start out too hard. When you get comfortable again, you're good to go. Pay attention to your HR, how you breathe, sweat, muscle fatigue and reserves, etc. at different stages of exertion and rest and you'll learn yourself pretty quickly.
 
Matts said:
I think you could do the nasal breathing fine, but use it to learn how to accurately gauge your physiological state from it. The math ratio is a guideline for being ready for the next stage. The HRM, etc. are all good ways to learn your own body's responses- once you do this, you've always got your metric built right into you. Have you done the straw breathing from S&S? Breathing is good because there's a sort of "panic" response built into not getting enough...breathing through the nose is good for stressing you a little if you start out too hard. When you get comfortable again, you're good to go. Pay attention to your HR, how you breathe, sweat, muscle fatigue and reserves, etc. at different stages of exertion and rest and you'll learn yourself pretty quickly.
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I find I'm a little mystified these days by my body's responses. I think I likely pushed it too hard for awhile. I was pretty rigorous about timing my sets and work ratchet downward by 15 or 30 second increments as the weeks wore on. I was worried I wouldn't stay focused if I just "spit balled" the rest periods. I've switched to just monitoring aggregate time for the swing, rest period and TGU. That seems to work okay, as the time drift hasn't been too bad, but I'm feeling like I'm stalled and I'm thinking a heart rate monitor might not be a bad idea.

I also suspect I'm still recovering from red lining my caffeine intake a few months ago and now that I'm 52 still keep trying to pretend I'm in 30's or 40's and can just shake it off.
 
Matts said:
I think you could do the nasal breathing fine, but use it to learn how to accurately gauge your physiological state from it. The math ratio is a guideline for being ready for the next stage. The HRM, etc. are all good ways to learn your own body's responses- once you do this, you've always got your metric built right into you. Have you done the straw breathing from S&S? Breathing is good because there's a sort of "panic" response built into not getting enough...breathing through the nose is good for stressing you a little if you start out too hard. When you get comfortable again, you're good to go. Pay attention to your HR, how you breathe, sweat, muscle fatigue and reserves, etc. at different stages of exertion and rest and you'll learn yourself pretty quickly.
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The straw test I very studiously ignored (because I'm a cement head) until you just mentioned it now.
 
Henningb said:
EDIT: No I don't look at the watch and I have ditched the HRM

+1 @Harald Motz

By the book
Nose breathing (normally forget on the first breath)
Fast & Loose (what I think that means, don't have the book)

When feeling ready - starting the setup for next set
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Sure enough, I tried to lock down nasal breathing last night and had lots of leaks, mainly because I seem to exhale improperly and then gulp in
air through my mouth which breaks my rhythm.
 
For daily practice I really like breathing ladders. 1x Swing, 1 breath, 2 swings, 2 breaths, etc. I have never tried a ladder with a 2:1 ratio though. 100 swings and 50 breaths worth of rest takes me well past 5min unless I shallow breath those 50 breaths. For testing, I'm guessing I'm more around 5:1 ratio to finish under 5min.
 
Currently, I am doing 10 x 10 2H swings for 15 seconds with 45 seconds rest with a 16 kg bell (have only been in KB's for four months and overstretched an intercostal muscle when pressing 2 bells of 16kg). I will gradually reduce the work-rest ratio to 1:1 and then slowly up the KB size.
For TGU's, I currently do 2 get-ups in a minute, one minute rest and repeat 5 times, with a 12 kg bell. Plan to eliminate the rest period, so I do 5 x 1 TGU left and right before moving up in bell size.
 
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