Kettlebell Kettlebell style conundrum!

[Ole Gimpy]

Greetings Strong First!

I am only posting this because I did not see any prohibition when I looked up the forum rules and have also done a forum search where I saw the same subject already discussed (but not the precise info I was looking for), both of which lead me to understand that this will be an acceptable topic to ask about. With my disclaimer out of the way...

The bells at my gym are an old line of perform better and don't have much texture or finish. Which is fine, except that the handles aren't that smooth (definite bumps and asymmetries) and due to the lack of texture / finish it is hard to get that perfect grip and it becomes challenging and less than ideal when performing movements where the handle rotates (especially snatches) and can really take away from my technique and performance.

Thus, I am interested in picking up a nice fancy pair of bada$$ bells for my personal training. My problem, and why I solicit the expert and professional advice of fellow kettlebell and strength students, instructors, and educators found only on Strong First, is that I am at an impasse on which style / brand to purchase (with price unfortunately also being a secondary factor)... So far I've narrowed it down to Perform better (PB), KBUSA's Metrixx lines (classic or elite?), and Vulcan's intriguing "absolute training bells". All of which have had at least one positive mention here on this forum in past threads which I've looked up. (At the risk of inciting a riot, rogue's bells just did not enthuse or excite me that much).

My very first bell (before I was familiar with Strong First) was actually a single WKC comp bell. I eventually bought a cast iron / standard bell before eventually acquiring a pair of 24kgs from the newest perform better line, the very same ones used at a recent SFG cert!

While I do enjoy the general feel of the iron bells (the new PB line has a great feel and holds chalk well, although the finish / paint? has chipped a bit with doubles practice, which I gather is normal for any kind of bell, but since I've only used a handful...?). However, I have also heard very good things about both of KBUSA's Metrixx kettlebell lines which have great sounding warranties. I just double checked and there is only a $10 difference between and METRIXX classic (Supposedly a lot like DD original bells which I've never used so kind of irrelevant to me I guess. Their elite line is ~20$ more?) and PB's new line (slightly less even including shipping, but only because they have a sale going on... 2 days ago they were about $20 more than KBUSA, without the warranty afaik).

I considered sticking with PB since that is what SF uses specifically, but considering my finances and the fact that I do have a pair of 24kg (my snatch test weight) SF approved PB bells to practice with already if I need to then perhaps sticking just to PB isn't necessary / not that big of a deal. Not to mention the product lines change so frequently it's nearly impossible to buy the same bell twice anyway (a friend of mine has another PB bell from a 3rd older production run and I've heard a lot of pros and cons regarding DD depending on when they were made).

However, I have to say that I do dislike the size difference between weights. It's not that I even have to change my technique that much , but 36kg and over just starts to become klunky, awkward, difficult, and cumbersome. Not that I am there *yet* but I imagine it would be next to impossible to do double bell swings with 48kgs, especially considering my rather short inseam. For that reason alone I am greatly tempted to invest in some competition sized bells, although I would miss the slightly bigger handle / grip work with the iron bells.

This brings me to my final consideration - Vulcan has a line of bells that look like an awesome hybrid between comp and cast iron. They all share the same dimensions over different weights and additionally are made out of steel! About the same price as Metrixx elite line if I recall correctly, except 32kg is as high as they go, and unless they make heavier bells in the future I can use regular style double 32kgs just fine!

I hope this near-ramble is coherent and understandable to others, not just my own mind. As you might have inferred, I can (over?) analyze a lot, for better or worse. Any suggestions, advice, or considerations are most welcome and appreciated!

Thanks for taking the time to read and a hearty thank you to those taking the time to respond.

Have a strong day!

 

[JamesO]

I have one Metrixx Classic, and a slew of the new training bells from Vulcan. If you've been searching past threads, you may have also seen that I've had bells from Rogue, Punch, and Ader. If I were to order bells today, they'd be Metrixx Classics or the comp bells from Kettlebells USA. That doesn't mean the Vulcans are bad or underwhelm. It's just that if I were to give the KB USA bells eight or nine stars out of 10, the Vulcans would get seven.

I ordered our Vulcan bells on Black Friday. They were between 35-40% less than they are now and had free shipping. I think it was a pre-order special since they were evidently in still in the manufacturing process in China when they were listed. The expected arrival was listed as Dec 15, but they didn't come until late Jan. The 26 lb. pair still isn't here and won't be until April. Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have ordered them. The bells are good, but Vulcan's communication is not. I've had to pursue them every step of the way. IMO, when part of an order, for whatever reason, won't be coming for five months, I believe the company should be getting in touch with the customer to keep them updated as events unfold.

When I ordered our Metrixx, it was here within two days. Kettlebells USA seems to have warehouses throughout the country, and it was a totally different experience. The reason I went with them for the 44kg bell we ordered was because I'd been working with a pair made up of one DD and one Metrixx Classic in the studio for a few months and simply couldn't tell them apart. As far as hardstyle bells go, the Metrixx Classic line is really nice. The Elites evidently have a slightly larger window of space between the bell and the handle, but I'd prefer to stick with the standard. Just my preference.

I'm sure you know that comp bells and hardstyle bells have different diameter handles. The narrower handle on the comp bells is why I sold our Rogues and Punch bells in the first place. My wife really likes the size of the comp bell handle. I still work with both and like both. I bring my vulcans into the gym all the time and work out with them right along the hardstyle bells. The handle diameter isn't much of a factor to me. The larger diameter handles of the hardstyle bells are more demanding on the grip, but in real world use I haven't really noticed.

The texture and width of the Vulcan handles is the only thing I don't love about them. The Vulcans have a textured powder coat finish. It looks cool, but I wish it were a bit less aggressive. You may or may not be familiar with the textured powder coat Rogue puts on just about everything they make. When I compared the texture of the Vulcan bell to some of our Rogue gear, they were pretty much the same. It's not usually a big deal, but the other night during a 20 minute set of snatch ladders (Geoff Neupert's, "King Sized Killer" program), it started to get to me. A friend of mine has some of KB USA's comp bells with bare steel handles. After a year of heavy use and chalking, the handles feel absolutely luscious. We'll see, but I don't think the Vulcans are going to get there.

And last thing, the wider handles on the Vulcans are nice for two handed swings, there's no denying that. They are. But they also tend to brush my inner thighs whenever I'm throwing the bell through my legs on the backswing. That's definitely not something I've gotten from any hardstyle bell or my buddy's comp bell from KB USA.

Vulcan and KB USA both packaged their bells really well for shipping. They both came inside a plastic bag in a styrofoam supported box. The Rogues, at least when I ordered them, definitely did not, and it felt like I was picking bits of smashed styrofoam out of the pores forever. So packing and shipping by both of those brands was really good. I don't remember how the Punch came.

So as far as hardstyle bells go, my preference is the Metrixx Classic from Kettlebells USA. DD bells are awesome, but the Metrixx was identical and will save you a little money. As far as comp bells go, the Vulcans are great, but I'd prefer less texture on the handles and a window that's a little more narrow. Their customer communication is terrible. Thankfully you don't need to deal with that once the bells arrive (unless you need to send one back). If you have any specific questions about them, feel free to ask.

 

[Ole Gimpy]

JamesO - not sure how to tag people but thank you very much for that reply. That was wonderfully informative and just the kind of info I was hoping for. I'm still slightly debating between hardstyle and comp but as far as hardstyle goes you've definitely got me leaning towards the Metrixx line (I would hate the Vulcans hitting my legs). As I mentioned earlier I've never tried the DD bells but have only heard bad things about the price tag haha.

As far as hardstyle bells go, the Metrixx Classic line is really nice. The Elites evidently have a slightly larger window of space between the bell and the handle, but I'd prefer to stick with the standard. Just my preference.

I'm glad you mentioned the difference - I was under the impression there is no "standard" with comp bells and that a lot of companies are starting to go to the wider window style...
Then again train with a small one and the larger one will be easier if you end up having to use one... right? (unless it's just harder to use and takes away from good performance, but that does not sound like the description of the classics line at all.)

 

[Ole Gimpy]

... Maybe I'll get everything hardstyle up to 32kg and then go to comp bells for all heavier double work. Haha
And maybe one big stinking monster hard style bell for 2hsw.

 

[michael wille]

I will mention that all comp bells are nearly identical in size to a 40kg cast iron.

As for bells, I really like the newest PB line (I don't like any of their older bells). for their next iteration I do hope they level out the logo/weight engraving more. I don't have much bad to say about Rogue although you don't care for them. My old DD are still my favorite, though I can't say the difference is worth the full price (I got mine at a little bit of a discount).

 

[Michael Perry]

FWIW, my arsenal includes Metrixx, CAP, Jordan (out of the UK), and an old bell of an unknown brand. They're all different; there are none that I actually dislike. The only ones I bought new were the Metrix. Those have never chipped in lots of double work. If I were buying new again I'd probably get the Metrixx again, but if I could deal on a used bell(s) of some other brand, I'd gladly do so. You might want to be on the lookout for lonesome kettlebells gathering dust and give them a good home, and not worry about whether you should have bought a ____.

 

[Ole Gimpy]

I will mention that all comp bells are nearly identical in size to a 40kg cast iron.

As for bells, I really like the newest PB line (I don't like any of their older bells). for their next iteration I do hope they level out the logo/weight engraving more. I don't have much bad to say about Rogue although you don't care for them. My old DD are still my favorite, though I can't say the difference is worth the full price (I got mine at a little bit of a discount).

Ah, I would have guessed 36kg...
Yes, my friend has an old PB which I really like but only because he did an awesome job sanding the handle himself...

FWIW, my arsenal includes Metrixx, CAP, Jordan (out of the UK), and an old bell of an unknown brand. They're all different; there are none that I actually dislike. The only ones I bought new were the Metrix. Those have never chipped in lots of double work. If I were buying new again I'd probably get the Metrixx again, but if I could deal on a used bell(s) of some other brand, I'd gladly do so. You might want to be on the lookout for lonesome kettlebells gathering dust and give them a good home, and not worry about whether you should have bought a ____.

That's good to know about the Metrixx. And yes, that is good advice to keep in mind. Last summer I saw a killer deal on some serious bells (DDs included) on Craigslist but I was a bit hesitant because I didn't really have the money at the time (was quite a reasonable price) but I rather wish I had been able to take advantage of the opportunity. Oh well...I'll try to remember to keep me eye out and if not, well there's something extra special about unboxing your very own new ones as well. haha

 

[Physical Culture]

I almost exclusively use comp bells, so I can't comment on the various brands of cast iron bells you discuss. However, KBUSA almost always has free shipping offers, and I've been really pleased with the quality of their steel comp bells. Shipping a pair of kettlebells can be as expensive as one of the bells, so free shipping is a big deal at my house. When I need a bell, I go to KBUSA first.

 

[Ole Gimpy]

I almost exclusively use comp bells, so I can't comment on the various brands of cast iron bells you discuss. However, KBUSA almost always has free shipping offers, and I've been really pleased with the quality of their steel comp bells. Shipping a pair of kettlebells can be as expensive as one of the bells, so free shipping is a big deal at my house. When I need a bell, I go to KBUSA first.

Thanks for the input! It seems there's a lot less options / factors to consider with comp style bells since they are more regulated across brands (except for maybe a difference of a millimeter or two in handle thickness). What do you think of the new "inner core technology" with the bell weight more centered near the top of the bell? Are those legal / common in competitions? In addition to probably saving a few bucks, it seems having the traditional GS bells (where the weight isn't near the top) might be better for training so if the particular GS comp you're competing in isn't using the new style you don't have to worry about it, and if they are - well, you'll just probably do even better using a more efficient bell than the one you trained with. Or does your experience lead you to a different conclusion?

 

[Physical Culture]

Thanks for the input! It seems there's a lot less options / factors to consider with comp style bells since they are more regulated across brands (except for maybe a difference of a millimeter or two in handle thickness). What do you think of the new "inner core technology" with the bell weight more centered near the top of the bell? Are those legal / common in competitions? In addition to probably saving a few bucks, it seems having the traditional GS bells (where the weight isn't near the top) might be better for training so if the particular GS comp you're competing in isn't using the new style you don't have to worry about it, and if they are - well, you'll just probably do even better using a more efficient bell than the one you trained with. Or does your experience lead you to a different conclusion?

I'm a Kettlebell long cycle competitor, so I definitely see the advantages in the efficiency and ergonomic design of prograde bells. I have not used anything particularly innovative, though I have a pair of Fedorenko "flat spot" bells in 28k. They provide a larger resting place for the forearm, and bring the center of mass perhaps half an inch closer to the arm. Improvement? I don't know, honestly.

There was actually quite a dustup last year about the two millimeter difference in handle sizes. At a large competition, the host ordered new bells with 35mm handles to conform to current standards in Russia. Most bells in the U.S. are 33mm, so several competitors felt that the thicker handles impaired their performance. The difference is about the thickness of a nickel. I think all mine are 33mm, and I'm not sure I've ever used a 35mm handle.

My goal is work capacity- defined as more reps- and having uniform bells definitely helps in the ballistic lifts. In my experience, more efficiency = more reps= greater conditioning. Of course I realize this is not strictly in line with StrongFirst philosophy, and I'm not looking to pick a fight.

 

[Ole Gimpy]

No worries there, I certainly appreciate both HS and GS as well.

As I have a tendency to really analyze everything I really wish it was easier to get a feel for / experience a bell before committing to buying it. 2 mm handle difference, top weighted bells, flat forearm spots... a lot of options to consider (although finances rule out WKC bells haha). It's a bit funny but not surprising to hear about the 2 mm controversy. My guess is whatever Russia is doing will eventually be the US standard. Not that I'm necessarily looking to compete in GS (not ruling it out at some point either - a small part of why I'm considering the GS bells and not jumping straight to HS) but I prefer having regulation equipment so if I do decide I'll be that much more prepared. If I do go for GS bells then based off of your recommendation it'd probably be either one of KBUSA's comp lines... why is why I was debating the benefits of training with a less efficient design (train hard, win easy kind of idea).

I have heard of Fedorenko's new bells and they look like a great idea but haven't heard anything about them actually being sanctioned in any contests. Then again, I am not familiar at all with GS rules or anything, so it'd be interesting to know. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like any performance benefits you've gotten from using them have not been overly significant, which is interesting.


Thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Physical Culture]

No worries there, I certainly appreciate both HS and GS as well.

As I have a tendency to really analyze everything I really wish it was easier to get a feel for / experience a bell before committing to buying it. 2 mm handle difference, top weighted bells, flat forearm spots... a lot of options to consider (although finances rule out WKC bells haha). It's a bit funny but not surprising to hear about the 2 mm controversy. My guess is whatever Russia is doing will eventually be the US standard. Not that I'm necessarily looking to compete in GS (not ruling it out at some point either - a small part of why I'm considering the GS bells and not jumping straight to HS) but I prefer having regulation equipment so if I do decide I'll be that much more prepared. If I do go for GS bells then based off of your recommendation it'd probably be either one of KBUSA's comp lines... why is why I was debating the benefits of training with a less efficient design (train hard, win easy kind of idea).

I have heard of Fedorenko's new bells and they look like a great idea but haven't heard anything about them actually being sanctioned in any contests. Then again, I am not familiar at all with GS rules or anything, so it'd be interesting to know. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like any performance benefits you've gotten from using them have not been overly significant, which is interesting.


Thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

I think that the GS bells I use have benefited my performance. I previously had a pair of cast iron 28k's, which I sold and bought comp 28k's. The uniformity of the bells makes it much easier to maintain technique, and also makes them more comfortable. I have callouses in the right places, and have built up resistance in my forearms in the right place. Of course, these benefits are much more applicable to long cycle than to swings, presses, or get ups. I work with the bells for 10+ minutes at a time. The way I see it, cast iron bells are a general purpose tool which are not as useful for sport-specific (Kettlebell sport) training, whereas comp bells are a specialized tool (as you note, perhaps becoming too specialized), which are also useful for general purpose use.

The only people I've known who have found comp bells to be harder to use than cast iron bells have been small women. A comp bell of any weight is about as big as a cast iron 32k. I've known a few small women who use 8k-12k bells, and simply could not handle the displaced mass of a comp 8k or 12k bell.

 

[Ole Gimpy]

You somewhat beat me to it but I was actually going to ask if you ever heard of anyone training (or attempting to) for a sport event using HS bells. I imagine it'd be quite challenging at best and possibly not worth the effort, and impossible at worst. BUT if you could do a 10min long cycle with respectable numbers with HS bells then you'd likely clean up at comp time, no??

In any case I like your assessment that hs bells are more multi/ general purpose and gs more specific tools, albeit more versatile than most people (hard stylists) give them credit for. That said, although the gs bell feels like a slick tool of precision and skill and awesomeness, there's something to be said for the feel of gripping a nicely crafted/ textured handle attached to a hunk of iron which is the hard style bell! Both beautiful in their own way!

 

[Ole Gimpy]

I definitely see the advantages in the efficiency and ergonomic design of prograde bells. I have not used anything particularly innovative, though I have a pair of Fedorenko "flat spot" bells in 28k.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken but based on your quote above and your earlier post that you mostly use kbusa bells I assume you primarily use their classic steel comp bell line and not their elite precision comp line...?

 

[Physical Culture]

Gimpy, yes, I use the classic bells. Years ago all I had were cast iron bells, and decided to train GS with them. It's possible, but I don't recommend it. To get the benefits of high rep ballistic lifting, hardstyle bells work fine. However, the technique difference and balance is different enough that stepping onto the platform for the first time and competing with GS bells is not a good idea.

I've been doing high rep clean and jerks for years, with both kinds of bells. Either will work, but I prefer comp bells. When switching from one to the other, there is a learning curve.