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Kettlebell Swings - How much knee bend?

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Deadlift13

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I want to start training with kettlebells and follow S+S but have a few issues with flexibility and posture. I've seen a physio who told me I have weak glutes, tight hip flexors and gave me exercises to correct these (glute bridge, clams and hip flexor stretching/foam rolling) which I do daily but she has said goblet squats and light deadlifts would be ok also.

I'm trying to work on my hinge movement to be able to deadlift a kettlebell from the floor before I consider swings but I'm struggling with the form. With no warmup if I just unlock but don't bend my knees then hinge backwards and drop my arms my fingertips are literally 2ft off the floor so nowhere near low enough to grab a kettlebell.

For the past month I have been aggressively stretching my hamstrings with hinge position stretches and also lying on the floor and using a band to stretch each leg back individually and give a good stretch of the entire back of the legs. After I do these on a night time I can hinge back with knees just unlocked but only very slightly bent and my fingertips can now brush the top of a kettlebell handle.

What I can't get my head around is if I should keep trying to make my hamstrings more flexible until I can grip the bell with almost no knee-bend, or if I should bend my knees more, in which case I could grip the bell now. Various pictures I have seen, including on the front page of the strongfirst website show people lifting with fairly bent (almost 45deg) knees.

I realise it probably various from person to person but is there an amount of knee-bend which I should aim for? I've also considered that it is maybe ok to use more knee-bend to initially get the bell from the ground before doing swings but keep your leg straighter when actually swinging?

I don't know whether to carry on trying to gain more hamstring flexibility or start kettlebell deadlifting now and am not really in a position to see a certified instructor about this at present.

Thanks for any pointers.
 
The degree of knee bend varies depending on structure but a good general guideline is: "Shoulders above hips - Hips above knees"

Pics or video would help us help you
 
Don't worry about the degree of knee bend. Worry about pushing your hips back and keeping a flat back, and let the degree of knee bend take care of itself. You DON'T want to hinge with overly straight legs because this won't allow you to get your hips back. The hinge pattern is pushing the hips back, not just flexing the hips so the torso goes forward. If your hips are moving correctly, your knees will too.

A couple of good patterning drills:

Touch the wall drill: Stand with your back to a wall, heels a foot or two from the wall. Hinge and push hips back until your butt touches the wall. Move a little further away from the wall and repeat. This drill teaches you to hinge BACK instead of squatting DOWN.

Stick drill: Use a broomstick, piece of pvc pipe, or similar. Hold the stick against your back so that it touches your tailbone, upper back and the back of your head. Hinge and maintain contact with the stick at all three points. This drill teaches maintaining a safe back position throughout the hinge.

If you can touch the handle of the KB with basically straight legs, you should have enough flexibility to grip the handle with a proper hinge (pushing your hips back and allowing your knees to bend as a consequence of that).
 
Hey @Deadlift13, welcome to Strongfirst!

Ok so in your post you are speaking about the hip hinge pattern but from two sides of the coin. The first is the straight up toe touch pattern (unloaded), the other is the deadlift pattern (loaded hip hinge).

Its good that you are approaching the unloaded hinge first. that is an important pattern for you to have, continue on with improving your flexibility here. Motor control with this pattern is also important here but can be a bit more difficult to explain here. I'm sure a few peoples heads will explode with ways to give you pointers haha. but like @Steve W says above, those are two of my go to drills.

When you set up with the "stick drill", make sure the stick touches the back of your head (while looking straight ahead with chin tucked and long spine), the middle of your upper back and just above your tailbone. this will cue you to "neutral spine", this is very important with the deadlift pattern. send your hips back like mentioned above and allow your knees to bend enough that you can continue to hinge while maintaining all three points of contact with the dowel (your goal isn't get your upper body to parallel to the ground, Like Brett says above
Brett Jones said:
"Shoulders above hips - Hips above knees"
Click to expand...
your knee bend will be personal to you but the one non-negotiable is the "neutral spine". If you can touch the wall with your butt while maintaining a neutral spine with your heels a few feet from the wall you're most likely ready to lift your KB.
Like @Brett Jones said above as well. if you could provide a video of your toe touch as well as you practicing these two drills that would give everyone here a little more info about you. Also maybe a little more "history' could help too (ie short bio, exercise history, injury history etc).

you're doing it right by taking it slow and getting the foundation laid, this will help you keep injury free. S&S is a great program to follow once you're ready and you've come to the right place to get started!

Good luck and keep us posted on how its going.
 
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