nyet07
Level 2 Valued Member
I'm with you.
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Thank you,
I'm with you.
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@kennycro@@aol.com
I do not understand your point. In your first post you stated that deadlift is not suited for every body structure. Saying so is reasonable yet such claim needs to come with adequate proofs. However, you do not mention WHY deadlift is not suited for everybody. In your second post the proof you've provided,
I...DO NOT understand why it is not suitable to everybody. Neither of your posts provide satisfying explanations.
I can, however, explain why squat is a technical lift and may not be done by everybody,
1-)The most important criteria is where your femur bones are inserted in your hips. It affects how deep you squat, how wide you squat and so on.
2-)Squats require a lot of flexibility: in ankles, wrists, upper back, neck, and hips
3-)It is much harder to get rid of a bad position since the weight sits on top of a person.
4-)Femur bone length greatly affects how good and effective your squats are.
5-)And at last but not least, I don't consider squats to be a natural movement pattern.
With deadlifts you have none of the problems above.
Out Squatting Your Deadlift
If the Deadlift was truly suited for everyone, everyone would out Squat their Deadlift. However, everyone doesn't.
I thought the same thing as nyet when I saw this the other day. If the sentence is saying what I think it is, it means something different than your argument.
The fact that most people do NOT out squat their deadlift indicates that the deadlift is a more natural way to hoist that amount of weight.
When people's squats are at or higher than their deadlift, its usually because their squat is transforming into a deadlift with the bar on your back.
When nyet says he doesn't consider a squat a natural movement, I don't think he's talking about how it feels to him, he's just talking about the movement pattern in general.
Toddlers, with no outside instruction, will essentially deadlift things to pick them up. I have never seen a toddler attempt to back squat something to pick it up.
While I know there are people who should not deadlift, of all the powerlifts/olympic lifts/compound lifts, I imagine the deadlift is applicable to the most people whereas overhead work, bench press, and squat would have more cases of people who aren't quite ready or have a condition that prevents safe, healthy practice.
To reiterate, "I don't think" is guessing.
When nyet says he doesn't consider a squat a natural movement, I don't think he's talking about how it feels to him, he's just talking about the movement pattern in general.
nyet, what are you thoughts? The beauty of discussion.
Also, the moment we think we "know" how this stuff works, we are more lost than ever. May we keep guessing and thinking and learning and growing.
I'm quoting your original post in this thread.Hello Everybody,
I am one of those people recently began experimenting with barbell front squat since I began considering it to be great upper back builder and foundational strength exercise. However, I have also come to realize that it is very technical lift as opposed to the deadlift, which almost suits to every body structure and can be learned easily as it is mentioned in PTTP. As far as I have experimented with front squat, I can say there are two major points that should be taken into consideration: up-right torso and not-tucked-in pelvis(butt wink).
It took a great effort for me to fix my butt wink problem when squatting. I had to do a lot of goblet squats including "prying" (I have no idea what the hell it means btw), and I've also done lots of stretch for my adductor magnus. I have too much muscle in that area by nature and they really reduce flexibility.
I've also done great amount of research regarding what affects ability to maintain upright torso during squats. I've come to realize that varying factors contribute to one's ability to stay upright. They include femur bone length, thoracic spine flexibility, ankle flexibility and torso length. No matter how hard I try to stay upright, including having open chest and flat upper back, my torso is never close to perpendicular to floor. My knees pass my toes, my back is flat and even flexed, but I am not upright. It is 30 degrees at most. But most of the time, if I don't flex my upper back, my torso is around 45 degrees to the floor with a straight back.
Because I cannot keep my torso upright, I decided kettlebell front squats would be a better choice than barbell front squat. What do you generally think about upright torso requirement for barbell front squats?
I used to imagine that it was mainly a flexibility issue, running out of usable range of motion because of tightness. While that can contribute, I found that the problem was not having a strong enough core or not tensing the core/bracing well enough. I am putting way more focus and feed-forward tension into bracing my core: keeping my upper and lower body connected through the pelvis, and it has helped me maintain a stable back position through the full range and keep the torso upright.
Try some hardstyle planks, or the hollow position from a pullup bar.
I'm quoting your original post in this thread.
If you're OK posting a video of your squat, please post it here. If not, and you're OK with sending it to me, PM me and I'll give you some feedback on what you're doing.
When I start working with a new student, I begin with the goblet squat. You mention not getting what "prying" is - we work a lot on this. I use the goblet squat to teach what I'll call "active flexibility" - using your strength to become more flexible. After reading your post again, my guess - and I want to stress that it's only a guess until I see your front squat - is that you have issues that are addressable but haven't been addressed yet.
My approach is that everyone should squat and squat well, but that not everyone needs to load up their squat. As a general guideline, I prefer that people load up their hip hinge with kettlebell swings and/or barbell deadlifts, and that they work on squatting beautifully with no weight, and with a light weight for counterbalance, and with a pair of kettlebells. If you can do those things well, you can also learn to do the barbell front squat well, but the barbell front squat isn't my first choice of a teaching tool.
Hope that's of some help to you.
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