"How-Low-Can-You-Go-Low-Low-Bar-Squats"

[Boris Bachmann]

It used to be that the bar had to be on the shoulders and there were (iirc, at least in the feds I completed in) rules that explicitly stated that the bar could be placed on the back no lower than the profile of the shoulder. Maybe it's just my old man memory, but I know Ernie Frantz writes something to that effect in his classic book on powerlifting - I'll try to be more thorough and fact-check these things later...
Anywho, over the past couple of years, I see more and more younger powerlifters doing a very very low bar squat essentially wedging their upper arms against their sides, placing the bar across the triceps, and supporting the weight w. the propped arms and copious wrist wraps - turning what was a squat into what more closely resembles a leg press of sorts.

I gotta be honest here - I try very hard to be non-denominational when it comes to barbell squatting, bar placement, supportive equipment, and even depth but ermahgerd does it look terrible. Yeah, I guess they can stand more or less upright but they're not....

Tiffany Chapon was one of the first that I saw doing this kind of squat (pictured below)...



but this girl, Ottilia Blom, really upped the ante on it:

 

[Halfakneecap]

It used to be that the bar had to be on the shoulders and there were (iirc, at least in the feds I completed in) rules that explicitly stated that the bar could be placed on the back no lower than the profile of the shoulder. Maybe it's just my old man memory, but I know Ernie Frantz writes something to that effect in his classic book on powerlifting - I'll try to be more thorough and fact-check these things later...
Anywho, over the past couple of years, I see more and more younger powerlifters doing a very very low bar squat essentially wedging their upper arms against their sides, placing the bar across the triceps, and supporting the weight w. the propped arms and copious wrist wraps - turning what was a squat into what more closely resembles a leg press of sorts.

I gotta be honest here - I try very hard to be non-denominational when it comes to barbell squatting, bar placement, supportive equipment, and even depth but ermahgerd does it look terrible. Yeah, I guess they can stand more or less upright but they're not....

Tiffany Chapon was one of the first that I saw doing this kind of squat (pictured below)...

View attachment 24719

but this girl, Ottilia Blom, really upped the ante on it:

I got elbow tendinitis just watching. It’s not much different to the absolutely ridiculous arch on bench press you see sometimes I guess. I guess, if it fits in the rules, it counts.

 

[watchnerd]

It used to be that the bar had to be on the shoulders and there were (iirc, at least in the feds I completed in) rules that explicitly stated that the bar could be placed on the back no lower than the profile of the shoulder. Maybe it's just my old man memory, but I know Ernie Frantz writes something to that effect in his classic book on powerlifting - I'll try to be more thorough and fact-check these things later...
Anywho, over the past couple of years, I see more and more younger powerlifters doing a very very low bar squat essentially wedging their upper arms against their sides, placing the bar across the triceps, and supporting the weight w. the propped arms and copious wrist wraps - turning what was a squat into what more closely resembles a leg press of sorts.

I gotta be honest here - I try very hard to be non-denominational when it comes to barbell squatting, bar placement, supportive equipment, and even depth but ermahgerd does it look terrible. Yeah, I guess they can stand more or less upright but they're not....

Tiffany Chapon was one of the first that I saw doing this kind of squat (pictured below)...

View attachment 24719

but this girl, Ottilia Blom, really upped the ante on it:

Between Blom's good morning squat and her crazy bench press arch...

Modern PL rules are a joke.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Modern PL rules are a joke.

Powerlifting Squat Rules

The majority of Powerlifting Rules do not allow Bar Placement on the back that low.

In these organizations, a lifter who's Bar Placement is that lo is never given "The Squat Signal" to start the lift by a Qualified, Reputable.
Referee.

The issue is with Unqualified Referees rather than the rules.

 

[Rygor the Swoleman]

That's just dumb and if lifters continue to try that their going to find out real quick it's a bad idea when they end up with dislocated elbows or worse.

 

[silveraw]

Powerlifting Squat Rules

The majority of Powerlifting Rules do not allow Bar Placement on the back that low.

In these organizations, a lifter who's Bar Placement is that lo is never given "The Squat Signal" to start the lift by a Qualified, Reputable.
Referee.

The issue is with Unqualified Referees rather than the rules.

I think IPF might have dropped the ball on the rules though. If you were going to rules lawyer it, you could argue that they specify the bar position is not obligatory without proper context. Also they don't quite define what a "shoulder" is. I'm guessing you can argue it is the shoulder girdle, which includes the scapula.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I think IPF might have dropped the ball on the rules though. If you were going to rules lawyer it, you could argue that they specify the bar position is not obligatory without proper context. Also they don't quite define what a "shoulder" is. I'm guessing you can argue it is the shoulder girdle, which includes the scapula.

The IPF Rules

As a former IPF Category II Referee, the rule stipulated that the bar could not be more 3 cm below the top of the deltoid.

The information you posted does not stipulate that. However, I doubt that rule has changed. An IPF Referee would allow the bar to as low as pictured.

European Powerlifting Federation

https://www.europowerlifting.org/fileadmin/data/coach_corner/Competition_Squat.pdf

As per the European Powerlifting Federation...

"Keep in mind, though that in order to stay within the specifications of the rules, the top of the bar should be positioned no lower than 3 cm from the top of the anterior deltoids. A low bar placement allows greater weights to be lifted because of a reduction in the lever arm.

This was the rule in my days as an IPF Category II Referee and it most likely still is.

Lawyer It, Argue

As the Head Referee at Meets, there is no arguing or discussion.

The Head Referee is in charge of the platform.

As the Head Referee at a local meet years ago, the Bar was too low on the lifter's back.

I never gave him the Squat Command to start the lift.

As a curtesy, I had him rack the bar. Then informed him that the bar was too low; which I did not have to do.

I could have let him stand there until his time ran out.

Referees are not obligated to provide lifers with a reason why they gave them a Red Light. However, when ask, a Referee usually informs the lifter as a curtesy.

The lifter tried to position the bar correctly, as per the rules. He was unable to do so on all three attempts; running out of time and bombing out of the meet without ever getting a Squat Signal from me.

Filing An Appeal

If a lifter questions the outcome of a lift, they can usually file an appear.

At National Meets there is usually a Board of Referees that the appeal can be filed with to overturn the Referee's decision. The appeal can be filed by the coach or lifter. The appeal requires a monetary fee.

If the coach or lifter wins the appear, the monetary fee is returned.

If the the appeal is lost, the monetary fee is kept.

At Local Meet, the Top Ranking Referee overseeing the meet would be the decision maker.

With that said, any lifter that position the bar that low at any meet the where I am the Head Referee will not get a Squat Command.

At any meet that I am a Side Referee in which a Head Referee allowed the lifter to Squat with the bar too low would be Red Lighted by me.

 

[silveraw]

This was the rule in my days as an IPF Category II Referee and it most likely still is.

I'm not familiar with IPF, do they have separate rules told to the lifters than what the refs are told? The 3cm thing is not mentioned at all in their public rulebook.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I'm not familiar with IPF, do they have separate rules told to the lifters than what the refs are told? The 3cm thing is not mentioned at all in their public rulebook.

Not Mentioned

It was not mentioned it the information that you provide which is puzzling.

There are no sperate rules for lifter or referees.

An Powerlifting Organization under the IPF adheres to the same rules dictate by them.

 

[Antti]

In the 2024 technical rulebook there is only mention of the bar held across the shoulders.

I believe one way of keeping the lowest bar positions out is demanding the lifter to stand strictly upright. But it's not foolproof.

Is this all a problem? Were the bench arches a problem, are things better with the IPF elbow depth rule in bench? Is sumo a problem with a stiff bar?

I'm both a judge and a lifter myself. I don't know.

 

[Steve Freides]

Modern PL rules are a joke.

There was a recent change in at least one federation made with the intention of eliminating some of the extreme arching in the bench press. I forget the particulars - didn't pay attention as they won't matter to me - about the elbows need to get lower to a certain point.

-S-

 

[Steve Freides]

but this girl, Ottilia Blom, really upped the ante on it:

I don't believe that squat would be legal in the USPA. I'll try to ask.

-S-

 

[Antti]

There was a recent change in at least one federation made with the intention of eliminating some of the extreme arching in the bench press. I forget the particulars - didn't pay attention as they won't matter to me - about the elbows need to get lower to a certain point.

-S-

That is the IPF rule I wrote about some times.

Practically, the humerii of the lifter have to be at least horizontal when the barbell touches the body.

 

[jmc5]

The 3 cm rule doesn’t vary based on height in the USPA and IPL rule books, and both rules allow the bar to be 3 cm below the deltoid. For a short lifter, 3 cm below the deltoid would allow meaningfully lower bar placement on a short lifter than on a taller lifter.

 

[Benjamin Renaud]

It used to be that the bar had to be on the shoulders and there were (iirc, at least in the feds I completed in) rules that explicitly stated that the bar could be placed on the back no lower than the profile of the shoulder. Maybe it's just my old man memory, but I know Ernie Frantz writes something to that effect in his classic book on powerlifting - I'll try to be more thorough and fact-check these things later...
Anywho, over the past couple of years, I see more and more younger powerlifters doing a very very low bar squat essentially wedging their upper arms against their sides, placing the bar across the triceps, and supporting the weight w. the propped arms and copious wrist wraps - turning what was a squat into what more closely resembles a leg press of sorts.

I gotta be honest here - I try very hard to be non-denominational when it comes to barbell squatting, bar placement, supportive equipment, and even depth but ermahgerd does it look terrible. Yeah, I guess they can stand more or less upright but they're not....

Tiffany Chapon was one of the first that I saw doing this kind of squat (pictured below)...

View attachment 24719

but this girl, Ottilia Blom, really upped the ante on it:

I'm usually just a lurker on powerlifting threads, not something I've practiced a lot at all.

I've seen tons of squatty DLs, but this is one of the "hingiest" squats I've ever seen.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I don't believe that squat would be legal in the USPA.

It's not.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

It's not.

I mean, I can't believe it's legal either, but apparently they ARE getting white lights...

 

[silveraw]

I mean, I can't believe it's legal either, but apparently they ARE getting white lights...

I believe tiff has some IPF world records as well using that style.

I’d assume they require specific judges that are a bit higher ranked than local judges to allow that.
It would be weird if the IPF was more lax on judging than the local podunk meets I do are.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I believe tiff has some IPF world records as well using that style.

I’d assume they require specific judges that are a bit higher ranked than local judges to allow that.
It would be weird if the IPF was more lax on judging than the local podunk meets I do are.

This could just be my perception, but I feel like the IPF has gotten a lot more "flexible" when it comes to bar placement and what constitutes legal "depth", and if you put your feet/legs together, it's pretty hard to sink a legitimately hip crease well below top of the knee squat

 

[Antti]

I believe tiff has some IPF world records as well using that style.

I’d assume they require specific judges that are a bit higher ranked than local judges to allow that.
It would be weird if the IPF was more lax on judging than the local podunk meets I do are.

International records can only be done at International meets.

This could just be my perception, but I feel like the IPF has gotten a lot more "flexible" when it comes to bar placement and what constitutes legal "depth", and if you put your feet/legs together, it's pretty hard to sink a legitimately hip crease well below top of the knee squat

I'm not sure if the perception of depth has changed. And I don't think we can generalize it's harder to hit depth with the legs together. Some are built for it.

The rules say the bar is held on the shoulders, not high on them. What would the better rule be? For example, I read one fed has a rule of the bar at max 3cm below the medial deltoid. Does anyone expect a judge to see where the medial deltoid of the lifter exactly is, especially the head judge?