watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Well if the rules don't get enforced, then they aren't really rules.
They become just 'suggestions'.
"How-Low-Can-You-Go-Low-Low-Bar-Squats"
- Thread starter Boris Bachmann
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Well if the rules don't get enforced, then they aren't really rules.
They become just 'suggestions'.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
Do you have actual examples of the rules not being enforced?
Alan Mackey
Level 7 Valued Member
Nice squat-morning!
Alan Mackey
Level 7 Valued Member
What really irks me about this is the press is not a contested lift nowadays because it's way too easy to cheat and judge.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Inept Referees
To reiterate, the rules are in place.
The issue is inept Referees that are not qualified.
This usually occurs at the local level.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Inept Referees
Let me reiterate this once more, the issue is Inept Referees.
As an example...
The New Mexico State High School Powerlifting Championships
Powerlifting is recognized as a High School Sport, in it second year. I worked the event for two days.
The championship had lifter on 6 Platforms at one time. That requires a total of 18 Referees at one time. Actually, you need about 30 Referees because you need give some of the Referees a break.
Since this is a new sport to the New Mexico High School, they don't have enough Referees and definitely not enough seasoned Referees.
The Head Referee at each Platform was qualified. They were on the money with their calls.
The majority of Side Referees new and inept. The Inept Referees were green and on the "Earn while you learn program"; doing the best they could but lacking experience.
All kinds of crazy crap passed; due to 2 Inept Referees giving which lights that should been Red.
As a former Powerlifting Meet Director and Promoter, I trying to find good Qualified Referees was always an issue.
Individual whine and cry about Refereeing calls but rarely are willing to step up, invest some time, take the Referee Test and show up and help. I have heard it all.
I have no patient for individuals who complain about something and are not willing to do something about it.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Believe
Believe equates to not knowing and guessing; which is never good.
If so, post her results and a picture of the Squat produce the record.
Assume
Assume means you don't know and are guessing, again.
At National and International Powerlifting Meets, Qualified Referees show up and work the the event.
These Referees are Veteran Referees who worked their way up from the ground floor, starting off with Local Meets.
At one time, a National Referee had to have worked Powerlifting Meets for two year before they could be considered to take test to become an International Category II Referee, which I was.
Moving up to become an International Powerlifting Category I, was based by invitation only; base on an individual year of work, commitment and a recommendation from a Category I.
To reiterate, it's hard to get enough good referees to work Local Meets.
Secondly, at National and International Meets there is usually a...
A Board of Referees
The board sit and observes the presiding Referees on the Platform's calls.
If in their view a Referee is not compliant with the Rules, that Referee is given a warning.
If the Referee continues to not enforce the rules, they would be replaced.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Your Perception
This equate to not knowing and guessing.
Rather than guessing speculating. provide some data to support your position.
Lack of Knowledge
Base one most of the responses, here it appear there is a Lack of Knowledge regarding the Powerlifting Rules.
There are some variances in the Rules of some Powerlifting Organizations. I get that.
From my decades of working as a Powerlifting Referee at the Local, National, an International and two World Powerlifting Championships, there is one common thread.
Very few Powerlifter have ever read the Rule book; they don't know the rules.
"When did they put that Rule in the book?"
This is one of the more frequent question that I am ask after providing a ruling on why I gave them a Red Light.
The first time I was ask, my reply was, "The rule has been in the book since I began Refereeing five years ago". I followed that with, "So, I am not exactly sure when it was first put in the Rule Book."
This Lack of Rule Book Knowledge is pervasive with Novice, National and International Lifters.
A great example is...
Larry Pacifico
Pacifico was one of the greatest Powerlifter of all time; also one of the smartest.
Ironically, Pacifico had never read the Rule Book.
Pacifico won 9 World Powerlifting Championships.
To qualify for the Worlds, lifters had to take first place at the Senior National.
Pacifico was ahead with his Sub Total at the National.
He missed his opening Deadlift. For his second, he called for a 2.5 kg increase; he missed that Deadlift Attempt, as well and was out of the meet.
As per the Rule at the time, which didn't make sense and was eventually changed, "When a Second Attempt only goes up by 2.5 kg, the Second Attempt then is registered as a Third Attempt.
Thus, Pacifico bombed out of the Senior Nationals.
Larry Pacifico was not allowed to lift at the World Powerlifting Championships that year. Pacifico was not able to become a 10 Time World Champion.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Irony of Olympic Lifting
When the Olympic Press was transformed into a "Standing Incline Bench Press"'; which was absurd.
The late great Russel Knipp's Olympic Press...
Talk about an Arch!
Knipp's Press was about the same as his Clean and Jerk.
This lead to the elimination of the Olympic Press in Competition.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
Calm down man - it's a forum where people complain and do nothing about a lot of things...
I'm uh... Look, I have to deal with a lot of administrative types on a regular basis who won't listen to experience, reason, and rational demands without "data", and cherry pick their own data to ramrod their choices down the throats of others. So, I get a little rankled when people say "Bring me data". I respect that you have experience as a referee and that is, 100%, a thankless job. BUT, to then assume I'm just guessing is bull... Watch some videos on YouTube and Instagram (you won't have to watch many), and you'll know I'm right.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
It's Part of American Life
That generally describe most Americans.
Complaining is wasted time.
Either learn to live with it or do something about it.
Making Excuses
Your reply dances around you Lack of Knowledge, comprehension and to avoid providing constructive information.
Many individual answer a question with information that does not really do so. Sound familiar.
This concludes this discussion, since it is time wasted.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
Always a pleasure, Kenny.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
Ironically the example photo in the original post is her setting an IPF record
Tiffany Chapon
Tiffany Chapon (born: April 29, 2001)[1], also known as Turbo Tiff, is a classic powerlifter representing France. Tiffany is a 3-time gold medalist, competing in the 47 kilogram weight class. Despite being a junior, Tiffany broke both open and junior world records in the squat, bench press and...
yeah… that is why I used the word.
It’s a bit better to do that than just confidently state facts that are easily falsified.
i strongly disagree. It’s good to know what you don’t know and recognize your actual limits of knowledge.
If you don’t you just lie to yourself and everyone else.
But we’re getting into Socratic philosophy here
Everyone, there is a cycle to these things, in my opinion. Rules are made, people figure out a way to adhere to the letter of the rule without adhering to its real intentions, and then after a bit of that, the rules get changed to try to prevent the abuses that were taking place.
-S-
-S-
metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
If that's really all there is to it then how do you explain federations purposefully turning a blind eye to (for example) mile high squats because they want their fed to have the record? Clearly there's more going on than just "inept referees". Btw, I thought they were judges and referees were for like soccer or something?
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
I thought that the 'how low can you go' question had been settled decades ago (iirc Ed Coan had been called out once on it unfairly) but now... maybe not so much - thus the thread.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
Ironically the example photo in the original post is her setting an IPF record
Tiffany Chapon
Tiffany Chapon (born: April 29, 2001)[1], also known as Turbo Tiff, is a classic powerlifter representing France. Tiffany is a 3-time gold medalist, competing in the 47 kilogram weight class. Despite being a junior, Tiffany broke both open and junior world records in the squat, bench press and...ipf.fandom.com
yeah… that is why I used the word.
It’s a bit better to do that than just confidently state facts that are easily falsified.
i strongly disagree. It’s good to know what you don’t know and recognize your actual limits of knowledge.
If you don’t you just lie to yourself and everyone else.
But we’re getting into Socratic philosophy here
Here is a video of her most recent squat WR:
is this what you all mean by a squat not to depth and the bar not across the shoulders?
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
I'd absolutely give it white lights, but it is an example of a very low bar position.
They called them refs in powerlifting most of the time, but I’ve also heard them called judges.
-S-