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"How-Low-Can-You-Go-Low-Low-Bar-Squats"

Boris Bachmann said:
And the rhetorical question is to communicate that it's not worth interest or discussion?...
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I think it's a great discussion.

However, I always think concrete examples are a great way to help the discussion along. That's why I had a look for the squat video in my earlier post.

So, if that is fine, could we see one where the depth is lacking and the bar is too low? And since the referees or judges were brought along for the ride, one that is done in an international meet. I'll even be gregarious and settle for the nationals.

Surely, I jest. Still, as a judge and a lifter in the most popular powerlifting fed, I do sometimes feel the need to defend the sport and the judging. Surely no one wants baseless accusations flying around?
 
Antti said:
So, if that is fine, could we see one where the depth is lacking and the bar is too low? And since the referees or judges were brought along for the ride, one that is done in an international meet. I'll even be gregarious and settle for the nationals.
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My intended focus of the thread was not depth, nor a referendum on judging. Yeah, I mentioned depth in the original post and made the point that a close stance can make it harder to hit depth, but yeah, I'm only really interested in bar position and how low is too low and does it matter if you can stand upright with the weight. I don't know what level the girl in the OP competes in.
Antti said:
Surely, I jest. Still, as a judge and a lifter in the most popular powerlifting fed, I do sometimes feel the need to defend the sport and the judging. Surely no one wants baseless accusations flying around?
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Again, this is the internet. Don't take it personally. I don't remember accusing anyone of anything other than having a terrible looking squat but I'll reread what I've written.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
My intended focus of the thread was not depth, nor a referendum on judging. Yeah, I mentioned depth in the original post and made the point that a close stance can make it harder to hit depth, but yeah, I'm only really interested in bar position and how low is too low and does it matter if you can stand upright with the weight. I don't know what level the girl in the OP competes in.

Again, this is the internet. Don't take it personally. I don't remember accusing anyone of anything other than having a terrible looking squat but I'll reread what I've written.
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I'm sorry, I tried to talk in general, I wasn't pointing any accusations specifically towards you.

From what I understand from a cursory glance, Chapon competes internationally, very successfully so, and Blom has won Swedish nationals. I couldn't find any videos on Blom in the competition, though. If I had to judge based on the video you posted on her in training, it looks like the bar is too low and she doesn't stand upright, though I can't see it well before she starts the lift. No question on depth. The bench looks fine, I don't think there's an excessive arch and the elbows come down enough. The deadlift is fine as well.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
Maybe this guy is why I hear people calling it the "French Low Bar Squat" idk:
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I asked, and got answers from several people I know are officials, that this would not pass not only in the USPA, it likely would not pass in any powerlifting federation. The video is from the Arnold UK, I believe.

-S-
 
I last lifted in the USAPL in 2017 so I am unfamiliar with their current workings. Would be interesting - I'll do later if no one else does before - have a look at their rule book. They were part of the international organization at the time this video was shot.

-S-
 
It appears that the lift with the dropped bar on the video was an IPF/EPF meet. I've posted the relevant rulebook page before. He managed to squat 265kg in -83, an excellent squat. Though the -83kg IPF WR is 320,5kg, so...
 
Steve Freides said:
My impression is that it’s strongman-ish rules. Deadlifts with straps and hitching allowed and like that.

-S-
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The Arnold is a “strength festival” kind of thing, different sports do different expos. It’s just the strongman event seems to have become one of the more popular ones.
I hear it is surreal sometimes if you go. You will see some guy setting world records on atlas stones next to a group of Pilates enthusiasts doing a group workout.
 
From pages 20-21 of https://www.powerlifting.sport/file...lish/IPF_Technical_Rules_Book_2024_24_Jan.pdf

You don't need to read this - there's no mention of bar position other than "horizontally across the shoulders."

POWERLIFTS AND RULES OF PERFORMANCESquat1. The lifter shall face the front of the platform. The bar shall be held horizontally across the shoulders, hands and fingers gripping the bar. The hands may be positioned anywhere on the bar inside and or in contact with the inner collars.2. After removing the bar from the racks, (the lifter may be aided in removal of the bar from the racks by thespotter / loaders) the lifter must move backwards to establish the starting position. When the lifter is motionless,erect (slight deviation is allowable) with knees locked the Chief Referee will give the signal to begin the lift. The signal shall consist of a downward movement of the arm and the audible command “Squat”. Before receiving the signal to “squat” the lifter may make any position adjustments within the rules, without penalty. For reasons of safety the lifter will be requested to “Replace” the bar, together with a backward movement of the arm, if after a period of five seconds he is not in the correct position to begin the lift. The Chief Referee will then convey the-reason why the signal was not given.3. Upon receiving the Chief Referee’s signal the lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the top surfaceof the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees. Only one decent attempt is allowed. The attempt is deemed to have commenced when the lifters knees have unlocked.4. The lifter must recover at will to an upright position with the knees locked. Double bouncing at the bottom of the squat attempt or any downward movement is not permitted. When the lifter is motionless (in the apparentfinal position) the Chief Referee will give the signal to rack the bar.5. The signal to rack the bar will consist of a backward motion of the arm and the audible command “Rack”.The lifter must then return the bar to the racks. Foot movement after the rack signal will not be cause for failure.For reasons of safety the lifter may request the aid of the spotter/loaders in returning the bar to, and replacing it inthe racks. The lifter must stay with the bar during this process.6. Not more than five and not less than two spotter/loaders shall be on the platform at any time. The Referees may decide to the number of spotter/loaders required on the platform at any time 2, 3, 4, or 5.Technical Rules book of the International Powerlifting FederationIPF Technical Rules Book 21 January 2024Causes for Disqualification of a Squat1. Failure to observe the Chief Referee’s signals at the commencement or completion of a lift.2. Double bouncing at the bottom of the lift, or any downward movement during the ascent.3. Failure to assume an upright position with the knees locked at the commencement or completion of the lift.4. Stepping backward or forward or moving the feet laterally. Rocking the feet between the ball and heel is permitted .5. Failure to bend the knees and lower the body until the top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees, as in the diagram.6. Contact with the bar or the lifter by the spotter/loaders between the Chief Referee’s signals in order to make the lift easier.7. Contact of the elbows or upper arms with the legs. Slight contact is permitted if there is no supporting that mightaid the lifter.8. Any dropping or dumping of the bar after completion of the lift.9. Failure to comply with any of the items outlined under Rules of Performance for the squat.The diagrams below indicate the typical bar position but not obligatory and required depth in the squat:
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From page 25 of https://uspa.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/USPA-Rulebook-March-13th-2024.pdf

You don't need to read this either - the important part is "The lifter shall assume an upright position with the top of the bar not more than one bar width below the center line of the medial deltoid."

Part 4. POWERLIFTS AND RULES OF PERFORMANCEItem 4.1 Squat4.1.1 The lifter shall face the front of the platform.4.1.2 Not more than five and not less than three spotters/loaders shall be on the platform atany time. A lifter may not use their own personal back spotter; they must use the same official meet spotters provided for all other lifters. (See exception 6.2.38)4.1.3 The lifter may enlist the help of the spotter/loaders in removing the bar from the racks;however, once the bar has cleared the racks, the spotters/loaders shall not assist the lifter further with regard to proper positioning, foot placement, bar positioning, etc.4.1.4 The lifter shall not hold the collars, sleeves or plates at any time during the performanceof the lift. However, the edge of the hands gripping the bar may be in contact with the inner surface of the sleeves. After removing the bar from the squat racks or the monolift, the lifter must move backwards by taking one or more steps to establish the properstarting position. The lifter shall assume an upright position with the top of the bar notmore than one bar width below the center line of the medial deltoid. The bar shall be held horizontally across the shoulders with the hands and fingers gripping the bar and the feet flat on the platform with the knees locked. Note: If a mono-lift is used, the swing arm lever pin cannot be removed, or the swing arm lever actuated. The lifter must still un-rack the weight and move backwards to establish his position (see exception2.4.4).26USPA Technical Rules 2024v14.1.5 The lifter shall wait in this position for the Head Referee’s signal. The signal shall begiven as soon as the lifter is motionless with knees locked and the bar properly positioned. The Head Referee’s signal shall consist of a downward movement of the arm-and the audible command "SQUAT".4.1.6 Upon receiving the head Referee’s signal, the lifter must bend the knees and lower thebody until the top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees.4.1.7 The lifter must recover at will without double bouncing or any downward movement to an upright position with the knees locked. When the lifter is motionless, the HeadReferee will give the signal to replace the bar.4.1.8 The signal to replace the bar will consist of a backward motion of the hand and the audible command "RACK". The lifter must then make a bona fide attempt to return thebar to the racks.4.1.9 For reasons of safety the lifter will be requested to “re-place” the bar, together with abackward motion of the arm, if after five seconds they are not in the correct position tobegin the lift.4.1.10 The correct bar for each lift shall be used in all competitions. Meet Directors have the option of using either a 20 kg power bar, 25 kg squat bar, or 30 kg squat bar, during anysquat flight. During the bench press only a 20 kg power bar or 25 kg power bar must be used. During the deadlift, only a deadlift specific 20 kg bar must be used. Meet Directors must notify all lifters well before the meet which bars will be used.
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I'll consider this another reason I'm happier in the USPA/IPL than in the USAPL/IPF.

-S-
 
IDK - I know USAPL split off from the international fed but it's not something I'm keeping close track of.

Here's a link to the 2024 USAPL rulebook - no mention of the possibility of the bar being held too low, see

squat: rules of performance

on pages 34 -36.


I'll spare everyone the long quote but it's the same as the IPF rulebook in this regard. Whether or not such squat form has been attempted on US soil is another matter and I don't know.

-S-
 
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