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Kettlebell Double kettlebell lifts carry over to basketball?

M3741

Level 1 Valued Member
Good afternoon.
Do double kettlebell lifts have any carryover to basketball players/athleticism or would I be better off sticking to barbell and basic strength training? I am thinking of starting some double programs as I have 2x16kg and 2x24 kg kettlebells. Of course I will also be performing plyometrics, jump rope, and cardio as well.
 
Good afternoon.
Do double kettlebell lifts have any carryover to basketball players/athleticism or would I be better off sticking to barbell and basic strength training? I am thinking of starting some double programs as I have 2x16kg and 2x24 kg kettlebells. Of course I will also be performing plyometrics, jump rope, and cardio as well.
How's your Dbl. CJ skill ?
 
Good afternoon.
Do double kettlebell lifts have any carryover to basketball players/athleticism or would I be better off sticking to barbell and basic strength training? I am thinking of starting some double programs as I have 2x16kg and 2x24 kg kettlebells. Of course I will also be performing plyometrics, jump rope, and cardio as well.
If you can dribble a kettlebell, you can dribble a basketball.
 
Bat signal received.

In my experience, KB exercises can have great carryover to playing basketball. In particular, I've seen great carryover from double front squats, double push presses (with weights light enough to launch to overhead with a quick shallow dip and minimal pressout), single snatches and double cleans. I've also seen great carryover in conditioning from A+A style training and from Q&D.

While KB ballistics are often touted as being akin to a vertical jump and having carryover to vertical jumping, I don't think this is necessarily true when it comes to jumping for basketball.

Jumping in basketball is usually not a straight hinge pattern vertical jump. It's jumping off one foot on the run, a quick two foot bounce off the floor off a jump stop, or jumping "in a phone booth" (remember those?) where you are in traffic with other players around you or leaning on you so you can't actually wind up and hinge. You need to get off the floor quickly with minimal preparation. If you have to wind up, the other guy already has the rebound or has gotten the shot off. If you need to hinge with the ball before going up with a shot in traffic, you give up your vertical space and are going to get roofed. And getting off the floor quickly, and then having a quick second and third jump, without having to wind up, are more important than maximum vertical distance. There are lots of HIGH jumping basketball players who are not necessarily GOOD jumping basketball players. And there are lots of quick and effective leaping basketball players who aren't necessarily the highest leapers (a few who come to mind are Moses Malone, Bernard King, and Carmelo Anthony). Of course, quick AND high is the best combination, but those players are freak athletes even among other freak athletes.

Kettlebell ballistics are great for generalized strength and conditioning that can apply to basketball (or almost any other sport), so I still think KB ballistics are great for basketball. But, IMO, they are not very sport specific for basketball jumping mechanics, and not sport specific to basketball for a second important reason: patterning a good defensive stance.

A good low defensive stance for basketball is much more of a squat than a hinge. As legendary Tennessee coach Pat Summit was fond of telling her players, "Get your butt down and your hands up!" Butt down is the key to the defensive stance in basketball.

In my experience, too much emphasis on hinge training, without enough squat patterning, leaves a player less able to maintain a good defensive stance and less in position to jump quickly in game situations.

I don't necessarily think absolute squatting strength is all that important for basketball (or really any kind of absolute strength above a certain threshold which would be considered relatively low for iron sports). Double KB front squats are plenty of load and, IMO, are one of the biggest bang for the buck drills for basketball (although not necessarily directly for the thread topic).

I am a fan of the barbell or trap bar deadlift for teaching the generalized skills of rooting, bracing, and wedging, which most carryover to being able get and hold position, move other players off of a position, and withstand contact, especially while staying on balance and not having to lean my bodyweight on opponents, being more of an "immovable object," being able push other players around and not get get pushed around by them, but not because I have to pick up heavy things off the floor on a basketball court, and not because of any noticeable effect on vertical jumping or "explosiveness." I think the trap bar DL is arguably better for basketball players, both because the form can be a little squattier, and because it's easier to learn for a lot of taller people, and usually has a an easy way to reduce ROM built in in the form of high handles. I do think there is a point of diminishing returns with the DL, and in my experience and observation that's around 405lbs for most people. Steph Curry reportedly maintains around a 400lb trap bar DL, which at the time I read about it was second highest on the team. My lifetime best DL is 425, and 465 on the trap bar, and I don't think it would benefit me on the court to go heavier. As noted above, for the purposes of basketball, working up to a moderately strong DL is more about the skills it develops than the actual absolute strength.

Another drill that I've found has a lot of carryover to basketball is the push press, because the quick dip and explosion is so similar to a lot of jumping in basketball. Here also, I think that the absolute load is not as important as the quickness of the dip and drive (and really, the shallower the better), and finishing the drive with full extension. A load that can be launched ballistically to lockout without a second dip or even any pressout, is plenty. IMO, the push press is much more applicable to basketball than the jerk, because the second dip to get under the weight is pretty much the opposite of any pattern that is useful for basketball.

Two things that I've found really help my agility and being light on my feet for basketball are jumping rope at a very fast touch-and-go cadence and Jump Stretch band shuffle drills.

Jumping rope does teach you to be light on your feet and have a quick bounce off the ground. So you want to keep it very fast-paced, and try to spend as little time in contact with the ground as possible.

For the shuffle drills, use standard Jump Stretch style resistance bands. The "light" bands work well, but you can progress to heavier. However, IMO "mini" bands are too light for this. Depending on the space you have, link at least two (at minimum) or three or four (if you have lots of space) bands together and anchor one end to a fixed point such as a fence post, basket support, bleacher railing or whatever is available. Step into the last band and loop it around your hips. Then just shuffle away from the anchor point to stretch the band as far as you can go, and then shuffle back toward the anchor point. You can do this forwards, backwards, laterally, and at various angles.

You have to be quick and strong with your shuffle to avoid being pulled off balance. But the real magic with the shuffle drills is on the "negative" where the band tension is pulling you toward the anchor point. It really helps with quick deceleration. When you first start doing these, practice moving slower and/or not shuffling as far away from the anchor to reduce the maximum force and get used to the effect of the band tension. Then you can speed it up as much as you can.

BTW, I am NOT a fan of plyometrics for basketball players. You get a ton of plyometric-type activity in game action and basketball-specific drills, so I think it is redundant and often counterproductive to add on a bunch of separate plyometrics or targeted vertical jump training. If you want to be good at basketball, the highest return on investment is going to be game experience and skills practice, compared to off court training. An ounce of skill, anticipation, and/or basketball IQ is worth a pound of athleticism.
 
Good afternoon.
Do double kettlebell lifts have any carryover to basketball players/athleticism or would I be better off sticking to barbell and basic strength training? I am thinking of starting some double programs as I have 2x16kg and 2x24 kg kettlebells. Of course I will also be performing plyometrics, jump rope, and cardio as well.
What position do you play and what type of offense/defense role?

Here's why: the demands of the top scorer is different from the guy expected to guard the top scorer on the opposing team..

It's also different if you're the person expected to box out the big guys to get the boards
 
Bat signal received.

In my experience, KB exercises can have great carryover to playing basketball. In particular, I've seen great carryover from double front squats, double push presses (with weights light enough to launch to overhead with a quick shallow dip and minimal pressout), single snatches and double cleans. I've also seen great carryover in conditioning from A+A style training and from Q&D.

While KB ballistics are often touted as being akin to a vertical jump and having carryover to vertical jumping, I don't think this is necessarily true when it comes to jumping for basketball.

Jumping in basketball is usually not a straight hinge pattern vertical jump. It's jumping off one foot on the run, a quick two foot bounce off the floor off a jump stop, or jumping "in a phone booth" (remember those?) where you are in traffic with other players around you or leaning on you so you can't actually wind up and hinge. You need to get off the floor quickly with minimal preparation. If you have to wind up, the other guy already has the rebound or has gotten the shot off. If you need to hinge with the ball before going up with a shot in traffic, you give up your vertical space and are going to get roofed. And getting off the floor quickly, and then having a quick second and third jump, without having to wind up, are more important than maximum vertical distance. There are lots of HIGH jumping basketball players who are not necessarily GOOD jumping basketball players. And there are lots of quick and effective leaping basketball players who aren't necessarily the highest leapers (a few who come to mind are Moses Malone, Bernard King, and Carmelo Anthony). Of course, quick AND high is the best combination, but those players are freak athletes even among other freak athletes.

Kettlebell ballistics are great for generalized strength and conditioning that can apply to basketball (or almost any other sport), so I still think KB ballistics are great for basketball. But, IMO, they are not very sport specific for basketball jumping mechanics, and not sport specific to basketball for a second important reason: patterning a good defensive stance.

A good low defensive stance for basketball is much more of a squat than a hinge. As legendary Tennessee coach Pat Summit was fond of telling her players, "Get your butt down and your hands up!" Butt down is the key to the defensive stance in basketball.

In my experience, too much emphasis on hinge training, without enough squat patterning, leaves a player less able to maintain a good defensive stance and less in position to jump quickly in game situations.

I don't necessarily think absolute squatting strength is all that important for basketball (or really any kind of absolute strength above a certain threshold which would be considered relatively low for iron sports). Double KB front squats are plenty of load and, IMO, are one of the biggest bang for the buck drills for basketball (although not necessarily directly for the thread topic).

I am a fan of the barbell or trap bar deadlift for teaching the generalized skills of rooting, bracing, and wedging, which most carryover to being able get and hold position, move other players off of a position, and withstand contact, especially while staying on balance and not having to lean my bodyweight on opponents, being more of an "immovable object," being able push other players around and not get get pushed around by them, but not because I have to pick up heavy things off the floor on a basketball court, and not because of any noticeable effect on vertical jumping or "explosiveness." I think the trap bar DL is arguably better for basketball players, both because the form can be a little squattier, and because it's easier to learn for a lot of taller people, and usually has a an easy way to reduce ROM built in in the form of high handles. I do think there is a point of diminishing returns with the DL, and in my experience and observation that's around 405lbs for most people. Steph Curry reportedly maintains around a 400lb trap bar DL, which at the time I read about it was second highest on the team. My lifetime best DL is 425, and 465 on the trap bar, and I don't think it would benefit me on the court to go heavier. As noted above, for the purposes of basketball, working up to a moderately strong DL is more about the skills it develops than the actual absolute strength.

Another drill that I've found has a lot of carryover to basketball is the push press, because the quick dip and explosion is so similar to a lot of jumping in basketball. Here also, I think that the absolute load is not as important as the quickness of the dip and drive (and really, the shallower the better), and finishing the drive with full extension. A load that can be launched ballistically to lockout without a second dip or even any pressout, is plenty. IMO, the push press is much more applicable to basketball than the jerk, because the second dip to get under the weight is pretty much the opposite of any pattern that is useful for basketball.

Two things that I've found really help my agility and being light on my feet for basketball are jumping rope at a very fast touch-and-go cadence and Jump Stretch band shuffle drills.

Jumping rope does teach you to be light on your feet and have a quick bounce off the ground. So you want to keep it very fast-paced, and try to spend as little time in contact with the ground as possible.

For the shuffle drills, use standard Jump Stretch style resistance bands. The "light" bands work well, but you can progress to heavier. However, IMO "mini" bands are too light for this. Depending on the space you have, link at least two (at minimum) or three or four (if you have lots of space) bands together and anchor one end to a fixed point such as a fence post, basket support, bleacher railing or whatever is available. Step into the last band and loop it around your hips. Then just shuffle away from the anchor point to stretch the band as far as you can go, and then shuffle back toward the anchor point. You can do this forwards, backwards, laterally, and at various angles.

You have to be quick and strong with your shuffle to avoid being pulled off balance. But the real magic with the shuffle drills is on the "negative" where the band tension is pulling you toward the anchor point. It really helps with quick deceleration. When you first start doing these, practice moving slower and/or not shuffling as far away from the anchor to reduce the maximum force and get used to the effect of the band tension. Then you can speed it up as much as you can.

BTW, I am NOT a fan of plyometrics for basketball players. You get a ton of plyometric-type activity in game action and basketball-specific drills, so I think it is redundant and often counterproductive to add on a bunch of separate plyometrics or targeted vertical jump training. If you want to be good at basketball, the highest return on investment is going to be game experience and skills practice, compared to off court training. An ounce of skill, anticipation, and/or basketball IQ is worth a pound of athleticism.
Thank you for the advice. I will keep this in mind when planning my workouts.
 
What position do you play and what type of offense/defense role?

Here's why: the demands of the top scorer is different from the guy expected to guard the top scorer on the opposing team..

It's also different if you're the person expected to box out the big guys to get the boards
I am a shooting guard, sometimes being bumped up to SF. I come off the bench but get good playing time. On offense I primarily handle the ball, and on defense I usually handle the Sg/forwards.
 
I am a shooting guard, sometimes being bumped up to SF. I come off the bench but get good playing time. On offense I primarily handle the ball, and on defense I usually handle the Sg/forwards.
Having handled some basketball players during my tenure at my old gym, something as simple as iron cardio, strong or a built strong plan like the cruiser would be more than enough.

Spend time in the gym getting stronger and adding the necessary armor (muscle) to handle the demands of the sport and get better in your sport through practice sessions..
 
Do double kettlebell lifts have any carryover to basketball players/athleticism or would I be better off sticking to barbell and basic strength training?
Strength Training For Sports

Strength Training in general will enhance athletes in Basketball, all sports.

Let's break this down...

Power Rules

In the world of most sports, Power Rules.

Strength Is The Foundation of Power

The Foundation of Power is built by increasing Maximum Strength.

Novice Lifters

This is especially true with Novice Lifter. Increasing Maximum Strength produces an increase in Power.

Thus, Novice Lifter should first focus on increasing Strength.

Intermediate and Advanced Lifters

Once an individual graduate to one of these levels, a program combines Power/Speed Training and Maximum Strength Training need to be employed.

"Strength Training Makes You Slow"

There is some validity to this.

If only Maximum Strength Training is employed, at some point Strength is increase at the expense of Power and Speed.

This has to do with the conversion of "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber being converted to the "Strength" Type IIb Muscle Fiber.

The opposite occurs if only Power/Speed Training is performed; "Strength" Type IIa Muscle Fiber are converted to "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber; Power/Speed increase at the expense of a drop in Strength.

The Conjugate Training Solution

This method employs Maximum Strength and Power/Speed Training into the same Periodization Training Program; set number of week of Progressive Overload Training, followed by a New Periodization Training Cycle.

The simplest method is to specifically focus on one day devoted to to each particular Strength.

Dr. Michael Zourdos' Research

Zourdos' research determined that greater increases in Strength occurred with...

1) Monday: Hypertrophy Training

2) Wednesday: Power Training

3) Friday: Maximum Strength Training

The Synergistic Effect

Research shows that there a Synergist Effect occurs; one Strength enhances the other.

A Synergistic Effect amount to adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5!

The Block Training Solution

This method prioritizes Block of Specific Strength Training into a number of weeks.

4 Week Example

Focusing on each of these Strength exclusively for 4 Weeks.

1) Hypertrophy

2) Maximum Strength

3) Power/Speed

Kettlebell Swing Movements


Kettlebell Swings, Snatches, Cleans, Push Presses, etc. are Power Movement in a well written program.

Power and Speed Movement are innervated and developed with Low Repetition and Moderate Loads.

The Kettlebell Swing

The Kettlebell Swing is an excellent movement for developing Jumping.

Resistance Training Movement that are similar in nature to sports and involve the same movement pattern and muscle involvement carryover, producing an increase in Strength and Power.

This research goes into the carryover (Transfer Effects)...

Transfer Between Lifts: Increased Strength in Untrained Exercises


Barbell Strength Movements

Kettlebell Pressing increase Strength.

Kettlebell Swing (Snatch, Clean, Swing) are primarily Power Movement; providing they are performed with Low Repetitions and Moderate Loads.

However for the most part, Barbell Squats, Deadlifts, Shoulder Presses and Bench Presses, Deadlifts, Lat Pulldowns, Bent Over Rows, etc. enable greater Progressive OverLoading in more movements than Kettlebells.
 
1. Work on your handle every day.
2. Take 100 free throws every day
3. Mid-range game around the world twice, then shoot 10 free throws while you're out of breath
4. Work on your off hand 2x as much as your strong hand. Especially little runners and layups.

Coach Flynn
 
Not sure there would be a lot of 'direct' carry over. But I am sure there would be a lot of carry over in these areas:

Clean Press and Font Squat - would have carry over in rebounding and injury prevention - so if you are looking at your game and want to be stonger on the boards I'd grab one of the clean and press programs and start there
Snatch - conditioning and injury prevention
Get Up - General Mobility

I'd be tempted to run one of the WOD programs.
 
Clean Press and Font Squat - would have carry over in rebounding and injury prevention
Development of Different Strengths

Strength Training is broken down into: Maximum Strength, Power, Speed, Hypertrophy and Strength Endurance.

On a side note, the term Strength Endurance is bit of an Oxymoron. Strength and Endurance are polar opposites. Strength on the opposite side of Endurance.

The training protocol of Strength vs Endurance is completely different.

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The Clean, Press and Front Squat would work to some degree.

However, this movement develops different type of Strength.

This movement does not allow these Strength to be optimally developed but it does provide a "Conditioning Effect".

Let's break it down...

1) The Clean

This develops Power.

Power is optimally developed with Moderate Load (70-80% of 1 Repetition Max for Cleans) with Low Repetitions.

2) The Press and The Front Squat

These develops Maximum Strength with High Loads (85% plus of 1 Repetition Max) with Low Repetitions.

The Issue

1) The Optimal Loading for the the Clean might be enough to provide an OverLoading for the Press.

2) It will not be enough to OverLoading in the Front Squat.

While it provide some Leg Loading, it's not enough to develop Maximize Strength.

Solution

To ensure each Strength is optimized, each of these movement need to trained separately.

Thus, performing Cleans, Pressing and Front Squat as separate exercises.

Training all three in one exercise amount the the saying, "If you chase two rabbits at one time, you lose both of them".

the WOD programs.
The WOD

The CrossFit Workout of The Day is based on chaos.

This type of training is somewhat effective at increasing Metabolic Rate, falling into GPP (General Physical Preparedness), Conditioning Training.

The WOD is not as effective at developing Strength, Power or Speed (dependent on how the program is written) with specific movement/muscle groups.

Periodization Training

Optimizing any particular Strength required that a certain amount of time (weeks) is devoted in the development that particular Strength and Movement.

Training Method for Maximizing Each Strength

As noted in Post 15, there are two method the are effective at Maximizing each Type of Strength; Conjugate and Block Training.
 
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