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Barbell 3x5 or one set of 1-2-3-4-5

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Abraiz

Abraiz

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Hi.

Just started Tactical Barbell Fighter template. Currently in the 4th week of the 1st cycle of 6 weeks. It calls for doing 3x5 with 75%, 80% and 90% of max in respective weeks. Now 3 set of 5 is 15 reps. Would it be remiss if instead of 3x5, I did 1-2-3-4-5? It is still 15 reps and this somehow "feels nicer" than 3x5. My lifts are deadlift, bench press and Push Press. Use novice weights.
 
Abraiz said:
Hi.

Just started Tactical Barbell Fighter template. Currently in the 4th week of the 1st cycle of 6 weeks. It calls for doing 3x5 with 75%, 80% and 90% of max in respective weeks. Now 3 set of 5 is 15 reps. Would it be remiss if instead of 3x5, I did 1-2-3-4-5? It is still 15 reps and this somehow "feels nicer" than 3x5. My lifts are deadlift, bench press and Push Press. Use novice weights.
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A. What are you goals?
B. Why do you feel a need to change the program?
 
I’d stick with the program for awhile longer before changing it. See first how it works as written. Then do something different, give it some time to work before comparing.
 
Abraiz said:
Goals:

A. Strength training that doesn't interfere with Muay Thai.

B. Want to use the 1-2-3-4-5 as it feels better - especially with deadlifts.
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And is the as-written program interfere with your Muay Thai?
What feels better mean? Less fatigue?
 
I find ladders easier to recover from. I also find clusters easier to recover from and provide more perfect reps and learning strength-as-a-skill opportunity. So another alternative would be cluster sets of 2- (15sec) -2- (15sec) -1 (3-5min) - repeat 2 more times.
 
Why do ladders typically up instead of down? Descending reps seems more logical to me for some reason.
 
It's more difficult to go too hard is the reason for me.
 
vegpedlr said:
Why do ladders typically up instead of down? Descending reps seems more logical to me for some reason.
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My opinion, the upward ladder is like a built-in warm up, particularly when you aren't changing the weight between rungs. A single press gears the body to do two next time, and so on.

By contrast, downward ladder is good for things where you anticipate fatigue being a big factor. For me, that's pull ups.


To the OP... I'd would guess that an upward ladder would enable you to work with more weight, but I'm not 100% sure that's a good thing for high-volume sorts of training. It might be a better idea to stick with the sets of 5 and just limit the weight to the point where it does feel good.

I'd also throw out there that I think 3x5 DL twice or three times a week is a lot. I think you have to keep the weight low to maintain that sort of volume. I only do 2x5, that's plenty for me.
 
Abraiz said:
Hi.

Just started Tactical Barbell Fighter template. Currently in the 4th week of the 1st cycle of 6 weeks. It calls for doing 3x5 with 75%, 80% and 90% of max in respective weeks. Now 3 set of 5 is 15 reps. Would it be remiss if instead of 3x5, I did 1-2-3-4-5? It is still 15 reps and this somehow "feels nicer" than 3x5. My lifts are deadlift, bench press and Push Press. Use novice weights.
Click to expand...

I would ask the author of the program.

Sidenote 1: 3x5 with 90% of 1RM is pretty tough. 5s for fighters? Why not, but my vote go to lower intensity (or more or less same intensity, but lower reps, like 2s-3s)
Sidenote 2: I sincerely recommend to read Easy Strength by Pavel and Dan John.
 
Abraiz said:
Hi.

Just started Tactical Barbell Fighter template. Currently in the 4th week of the 1st cycle of 6 weeks. It calls for doing 3x5 with 75%, 80% and 90% of max in respective weeks. Now 3 set of 5 is 15 reps. Would it be remiss if instead of 3x5, I did 1-2-3-4-5? It is still 15 reps and this somehow "feels nicer" than 3x5. My lifts are deadlift, bench press and Push Press. Use novice weights.
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I’d re-read the program - TB doesn’t call for sets of 5 on the 90% weeks (or the 85% ones where applicable). You can also use a training max to base your percentages off of if the weights feel heavy, which I think is a generally a good idea, especially for the first cycle or two.
 
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1-2-3-4-5 is a tough protocol for heavy weights. 5-4-3-2-1 (increasing weight each set) is a old school program that has worked for many people.

Changing programs is fine, just that it helps if you stick at something for a block before deciding.

The TB protocol is something I have used before, the 90% week is set of 3s (actually could even be less than that), and often using a Training Max to start off. To do sets of 5 at 90% of true 1RM... frankly some people won't be able to do more than 1 set at that.
 
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I like ladders and reverse ladders.

Dan John has a couple of articles where he recommends ladders like 2-3-5 / 2-3 for a total of 15 reps, or 3x (1-2-3) for a total of 18 reps. I like this article in particular: A Simple Strength Program – Dan John – Medium (3x 1-2-3 with a 5RM weight)

And in this one he programs ladders for hypertrophy: ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT HYPERTROPHY – Dan John – Medium

This is from Beyond Bodybuilding of Pavel:
Pavel said:
Take a 5-6RM weight and perform series of 1, 2, 3 reps. Take one-minute breaks and keep up the sequence till fatigue.

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Beyond Bodybuilding: Muscle and Strength Training Secrets for The Renaissance Man . DD Publications. Kindle-Version.
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And in an article on improving the bench press, Pavel writes:
Pavel said:
Since you cannot keep on adding five pounds a workout forever, even if you started the cycle with a light weight, eventually you will reach your five-rep max. When Jason reached his he switched from powerlifting style cycling to ladders. ‘A ladder’ means doing one rep, resting briefly, doing two reps, etc., then starting all over when you cannot top the reps of the last set. Brice did sets of 1-2-3-1-2… with his 5RM until his form started to get sloppy. He did this every other day for two weeks.

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Beyond Bodybuilding: Muscle and Strength Training Secrets for The Renaissance Man . DD Publications. Kindle-Version.
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In the SF podcast, Chad Waterbury recommends zig-zag-ladders, like 5-1-4-2-3 (so you get some rest after a heavy rung).

Paul Wade of Convict Conditiong has a nice article on 5-4-3-2-1 (with 2x5 warmup sets with an easier variation): The Bodyweight Revolution

Sooo, lots of options - and everything seems to work, apparently... Total reps + managing fatigue are maybe more important than fixed rep schemes. At least that's my takeaway from Easy Strength.
 
If I remember right Pavel T recommends ascending ladders for strength training and descending ladders for hypertrophy. I'm not sure how big the difference is in practice.

If I compare 3*5 to 1-2-3-4-5 or 5-4-3-2-1 with the same weight, 3*5 is substantially harder.
 
If Muay Thai is your primary focus, lifting is just G.P.P., not a goal in itself. Your routine should be something brief and moderately intense, so it doesn’t detract from your performance on the ring.

I would suggest something along these lines:
- Any squat variation.
- Any horizontal pull variation.
- Any vertical push variation.

Three (working) sets of three PERFECT reps, with a three minute rest, three times a week for three weeks. I would recommend a load you could have done three more reps with (lifting as G.P.P. should be somewhat easy-ish), following a wave loading cycle, so at the end of it you get a new P.R.

After three weeks, I would switch the exercises to:

- Any hinge variation.
- Any horizontal push variation.
- Any vertical pull variation.

After every lifting session, you shouldn’t feel spent, but refreshed.
 
Thanks to all who replied. I don't really want to change the program, maybe just tweak it a little bit. Yes, the TB Fighter template calls for 3x3 at 90% and not 3x5. I mistyped it here. The strength training does make me feel not exactly "refreshed" but kind of relaxed, especially after an intense Muay Thai session.

So, my takeaway from reading all this is that 1-2-3-4-5 is also doable. That is what I am going to do. Maybe not in the 3rd and 6th weeks, when it calls for 3x3 which feels nice. Once again, thanks to all who replied.
 
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