Q&D - 044 is sets of 10. I follow it daily using the 1h kettlebell swing.
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Kettlebell A+A Appropriate Movements
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rwleonard
Level 7 Valued Member
What is the 5/4 then? Is that 044C?
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
10 snatches every 3 minutes.
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
- 4 sets of 5
- no.
I believe that is 033.
I do not follow an actual Q&D protocol but rather one inspired by what I have learned from S&S/A+A/Q&D.
Because I do my swings first thing and often strength training after, I do a set of series of swings as 10L, 10R. This also lets me not worry about staying balanced in which arm does how many swings if I were to do a series with my left and then the next series with my right. It also minimizes grip and shoulder fatigue - I get plenty of that from my other training, particularly since I really want to improve my bench press. I plan to try a series left then a series right at some point in the future but my minimalist brain likes doing the same thing for each series.
I started out doing 2 series most days, worked up to 3 with an occasional 4th, worked up to 4 series with an occasional 5th, and am now up to 4 series with an occasional 5th and even 6th. That means 80 swings most days, 100 sometimes, 120 sometimes, and only 60 sometimes.
Once in a while, I rest one minute less than the protocol between the first two series, or between all series, usually when I'm pressed for time and am doing only 60 total swings.
In the interest of completeness, I do a couple of warmup exercises before my swings. First is usually some sort of dead hang from a bar or rings. One of them is a "new" - is anything truly new? - kind of kettlebell shoulder exercise about which I am working on an article with Fabio, coming soon to a theater near you.
The other is a single "thing" on the rings where I hang, pull my legs into a L-Sit position, and do 3 pullups (with a pause at each end of each rep) before releasing the L-Sit then coming off the rings. Not a warmup for everyone, I realize, but I've always been good at pullups and the way I do this works well to get everything functioning well for me. I vary whether I do the ring L-Sit pullups or the shoulder exercise first, but the whole business is quite short.I have a training log at We Ride Chickens if you or anyone wants to look at it.
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
I've done a lot of sessions like this and really like the format. In my mind, I associate A+A with short sets of 5 or fewer reps, so I don't think of this as "pure" A+A. But that's my definition based more on how I learned and have practiced the concept of A+A from Al Ciampa's posts than on any cellular-level physiological effects of the training, which I mostly ignore.
I think of 10 snatches every 3 minutes x 10 sets as 015 timing, although 015 in the Q&D book is 10 swings every 3 minutes, interleaved with 10 power pushups every 3 minutes. I quite enjoy the combination of slightly longer sets and long rests, and I do it with power pushups too as a separate standalone module.
In the Q&D book, 5/4 (5 reps on the :30 x 4) and 10/2 (10 reps on the :60 x 2) are two rep schemes within Q&D and they can be used with swings and pushups in the 033 protocol or with snatches in the 044 protocol. AFAIK, the letters denoting different variations were part of the experimental versions of the protocols before the book came out and/or are labeled that way as part of Strong Endurance, but aren't officially part of the Q&D book. You can do one or other or mix and match them by choice, or randomly by dice roll. Personally, I much prefer 10/2 and never do 5/4.
The book also discusses using a 5/2 rep scheme (5 reps on the :60 x 2) with a heavier weight, or 15/2 (15 reps on the :60 x 2) with a lighter weight. I've experimented with both and rotate them into the mix regularly.
Keep in mind that for all the Q&D snatch protocols, you do all the sets of one series on one hand and only switch hands between series, whereas with swings you switch hands every set.
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Bauer
Level 8 Valued Member
yes and not really
044 calls for a handswitch after each series
033 calls for a handswitch after each set
In the book 044 is programmed with snatches, but you could use swings that way too, as I have recently done.
Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Isn't that the same thing I said? 044 includes all the snatch protocols and 033 includes all the swing protocols, except for 015 which uses alternating hands each set.
Sure, but that's not in the book (just like doing 044 with just power pushups is not in the book, but I like to do it that way).
Did you do all the sets in a series on one hand because it is 044, or switch hands every set because you did it with swings? Just out of curiosity, since I don't think either is right, wrong, or obviously better or worse.
mar2safety
Level 6 Valued Member
From what I've read, typically your A+A sets shouldn't exceed 15 secs in length. And the rest should be around 1:5 work/rest.
I've done sets of KB snatches at 3-5 reps EMOM. I'm tall 6'4", so a set of 5 snatches puts me around 14 secs. Should I rest more to hit 1:5 ratio? Not sure. But if each rep is explosive, and I can pass the talk test before the start of each set, I keep going. It has been mentioned numerous times on various threads; the limiting factor with KB snatches is typically the hands.
I'm going to play around with 1 snatch every 20 secs, switching hands every snatch. There are studies that indicate the additional energy expenditure on the first rep of a set. And I find that the first snatch, from the setup on the ground, requires more energy to explosively get the bell hiked back and snatched up overhead. In fact, this method may end up being a good way to introduce a heavier bell (just go with 1 snatch every 30 secs).
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
In the wake of attending strong endurance - and pouring over the manual - I have an untested hypothesis that this may be a superior method of training for my strength-oriented 80/20 GPP non-specific goals. the rest between reps will cut down on the opportunity for acidosis. after my current cycle of long cycle - I may turn back to snatches. they just cover so much ground is such a small package. add in some rowing - and that may be my A+A world for at least 1 cycle.
single reps timed something like...
snatch weight vs timing (s) | 10 | 20 | 30 |
|---|---|---|---|
G- | ✔ | ✔ | ✔ |
G | ✖ | ✔ | ✔ |
G+ | ✖ | ✖ | ✔ |
mar2safety
Level 6 Valued Member
Something I've given some thought, and it's along the lines of ensuring a change in delta 20 from workout to workout. Maybe this is a better discussion on it's own thread, but it involves A+A, so:
Let's say three snatch sessions a week.
Session 1) 3 snatches every 30 secs. (20 repeats as an example)
Session 2) 5 snatches every 60 secs. (20 repeats)
Session 3) 7 snatches every 90 secs. (20 repeats)...............from workout to workout you are changing the reps per set, by more than 20%, number of repeats remains the same, so the session goes longer in duration from session 1 thru 3, but using the same load.
Session 4) 3 snatches every 30 secs. (24 repeats, 20% increase in total volume)
Session 5) 5 snatches every 60 secs. (24 repeats)
Session 6) 7 snatches every 90 secs. (24 repeats)...........so the delta 20 for the 3 session block is the increase in volume.
Keep increasing volume, in 3 block sessions, to some target #, increase the load by using a heavier bell, drop the repeats back down and start working up again.
I have not tested this out yet. I was building a spreadsheet to track A+A snatches, building in delta 20 from workout to workout, week to week, month to month and started to play around with different variables that you could wave.
Bauer
Level 8 Valued Member
There is a reference of "Mark" using the 044 template with swings. To me this is a clue that it is about the template (2 exercises vs. 1) and not about the exercises. Therefore I only switched hands after a series.
But of course the book could be more clear about the relationship between templates and exercise selection, as it is only presented with specific choices, and 033 and 044 are only mentioned in passing.
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