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A+A (AXE) alactic, really?

A few more considerations:

1. Sprinting vs. KB work- these are apples and oranges. Two very different modalities.
2. Genetics, training history, training experience, training intensity, current GPP, diet.
3. Exercise selection matters. A max effort sprint @ :7 impacts the body VERY differently than 4-5 swings.
4. Science and application- The StrongFirst A+A protocols, aren't magic, they are intelligently based training protocols driven by science and empirical evidence. Also, you can develop some pretty incredible GPP using A+A protocols.
5. Research- I've read a fair of info on speed, alactic power, alactic capacity, but haven't seen hardly anything mimicking the A+A work to rest protocols. It doesn't really fit in any of those categories, not to mention using a KB.


This is a great conversation !
 
Luwuwu said:
Please elaborate!
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There seems to be a concern about the presence of lactate during an AXE session.
As you say, all three energy systems operate by percentage utilized varying over time.

It would be fair to say that you can't do anything without the presence of lactate. The right amounts from AXE training acts as a stimulus for adaptation instead of pathology.

And its been pointed out, there will be differences in lactate levels between sprinters going hard for 10s and 2-6 80% effort swings/snatches/jerks OTM. The relaxation part of each rep of the prescribed exercise significantly reduces the amount of lactate produced, and so will active rest periods. Seems not to be the case with sprinting, resulting in much higher lactate levels. The swimmers mentioned in the book were training at no more than 8 second repeats. Perhaps much less than 10 seconds is required for sprinting to meet the requirements of being a repeat for IIX fibers.

There are several mentions across SS/QD/AXE books that the non-destructive amount of lactate stimulates mitochondrial adaptation without mitoptosis and other deleterious systemic health effects. Here we get why AXE is anti-glycolytic, because it doesn't trash you with excessive acidosis/acidity from going deep into glycolysis repeatedly over time, not because glycolysis somehow doesn't occur. The section on repeats vs intervals mentions how it is critical to be able to manage the acidity in the IIX fibers. We're training the muscle fibers ability to adapt to the stimulus of mild acidity and we're given 5 stop signs with explanations for why scattered throughout the book.

It is annoying but with all the requirements between exercise selection, intensity, reps and recovery to the 5 stop signs are designed to achieve a maintained zone of acidity being "just so."
 
Where's this obsession with lactate numbers coming from all of a sudden? I thought we all understood that all forms of exercise produce some level of metabolic byproducts.
 
djm said:
Where's this obsession with lactate numbers coming from all of a sudden? I thought we all understood that all forms of exercise produce some level of metabolic byproducts.
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It's the huge number of 18mmol/L on 6s efforts/180s rest which isn't "a little bit acid" or "minimizing".

But as said before, 6 seconds of sprinting is much more intense than 6-10 swings and sprinters have a predisposition to produce a lot of lactate.
 
Paotle said:
Hi everyone,
It is obvious that training of <4 seconds mainly uses PCr pathway which is alactic. However, my past experience as a sprinter and lactate testing done on me at the time showed that even a small number of intervals with very short sprints (3-5 seconds) with 3-5' rests caused high lactate peaks >20mmol /L.
I came across this post (see below) from Hakan Andersson an elite sprinting coach who shows that 3*4*60m/3'/10' caused a lactate surge similar to what I had experienced on efforts of 5-6 seconds.
Two reminders:
1. The (critical) lactate threshold is at 4mmol/L. The data shown here on "alactic sprints" with nearly complete rest are a massive lactate production (20mmol/L) similar to very high intensity intervals of 4 minutes.
2. these workouts are supposed to be much less lactic than what the Strongfirst system advocates.
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Paotle, you are right that sprinters produce more HLa. I will add that there are great individual differences among sprinters, even from the same country's national team.

BLa up to 11mM has been shown to crank up the aerobic metabolism and the general Rx for AXE is not to exceed BLa of 8mM.

Reduce the set duration and/or increase the rest. Try a set every 2min.
 
Pavel said:
Paotle, you are right that sprinters produce more HLa. I will add that there are great individual differences among sprinters, even from the same country's national team.

BLa up to 11mM has been shown to crank up the aerobic metabolism and the general Rx for AXE is not to exceed BLa of 8mM.

Reduce the set duration and/or increase the rest. Try a set every 2min.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your answer, Pavel. Always appreciated.
Best,
 
Just bought AXE. To be honest, the release totally by-passed me and just going through it. Here:

"In some types of training, total recovery and preferably supercompensation is a must and a trickle charge cannot be avoided. Sprinting is a classic example. A high level 100-meter specialist rests for 15 minutes or longer between 50-meter repeats. It is time inefficient—waiting for the last five percent of the CP to drip in takes forever—but such is the name of the game in which fractions of a second decide the difference between the winner and the also-ran."

As you know, long rests are the thing for speed. I'm not concerned about excessive lactate as when doing max velocity blocks other training is curtailed when the volume peaks (and I'm strict on myself using long rests). I tend towards viewing this training thing as total stress....not sure if that is discussed in AXE....only one way to find out.
 
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