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Kettlebell A+A how does it work/can you freestyle it?

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AHA! (busted) I was content to lurk and wait for others to ask but, here goes:

As for Grinds,

1) completed during same workout or separate workout?

2) if during the same workout, before or after A+A work?

3) Which grinds work the best with this protocol?
 
1) How do you know when your recovered enough to do the next set? I use a heart monitor...
2) Is there a time limit that if youre heart rate doesnt recover by that you finish for the day?
 
WhomtheBellTolls said:
1) How do you know when your recovered enough to do the next set? I use a heart monitor...
2) Is there a time limit that if youre heart rate doesnt recover by that you finish for the day?
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1) I've never used a heartrate monitor or paid any attention to my specific heartrate for kettlebell training. I know others have used heartrate monitors in various ways for A+A, but I've never felt the need. I think of A+A as power repeat training (focusing on the output), not necessarily cardio or energy system training (the physiological processes involved in producing the output).

I've determined recovery time two ways.

The first is just going by feel (which subjectively includes heartrate, but I don't pay specific attention to heartrate), doing the next set when I feel ready, and generally erring on the side of more rest rather than less. I never worry about taking too much rest, and I try not to expand the rest periods too much as the session goes on (which means not going as fast as I might earlier in the session). Stay as fresh as possible and make every set strong are my guidelines.

The second way is by using a clock and picking a generous rest interval that I know by experience will be sufficient at the end of a session. That means it will feel like more than I need at the beginning of a session, but it really isn't because it's the pace I need to maintain throughout the whole session.

2) See number 1.
 
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SamTX said:
AHA! (busted) I was content to lurk and wait for others to ask but, here goes:

As for Grinds,

1) completed during same workout or separate workout?

2) if during the same workout, before or after A+A work?

3) Which grinds work the best with this protocol?
Click to expand...
I'm certainly not qualified to answer questions 1 and 2, but the following from a recent SF newsletter should help with question 3:

Following are short lists with some of the top general A+A exercises, quick and “slow.”

Explode

Since A+A exercises are done with high volume and frequency, they must be easy on the joints. For that reason, Prof. Selouyanov recommended choices that reduce or eliminate eccentric loading such as box jumps and hill sprints. (Eccentric loading is not a problem with most kettlebell drills as good ergonomics dissipate the shock away from the joints.)

  • Sprints, especially uphill or up stadium steps
  • Box jumps
  • Power pushups
  • Many exercises with rubber bands
  • Medicine ball or rock or kettlebell throws
  • Kettlebell swings, cleans, and snatches
  • Kettlebell push presses and jerks
  • Barbell power cleans
Grind

An important consideration for A+A grinds is the ease of setting up, picking up and “parking” the weight. For instance, the bench press is a poor choice because the set-up is slow and meticulous. The barbell back squat is borderline since proper bar placement is not instant.

  • Sled or car pulling and pushing (can also be explosive)
  • Weighted step-ups and walking lunges
  • Pistols
  • Pullups
  • Farmer carries
  • Barbell front and Zercher squats
  • Barbell deadlifts (this and some other “grinds” can also be made explosive)
  • Kettlebell goblet and front squats
  • Kettlebell military presses
  • Kettlebell get-ups
Plus, there are various hybrid exercises such as the kettlebell clean plus military press plus front squat from the classic “strength aerobics” circuit by Alexey Senart, StrongFirst Certified Senior Instructor.
 
So going off this article you could in the Q&D program you could potentially swap the kettlebell swing with Farmer Carrys if done explosively?
 
I did not interpret the recommended A+A grinds as having to be done explosively in every instance. For example, it specifically calls out Strength Aerobics (Clean, Press, FSQ) which is typically not done explosively.
 
paules said:
I did not interpret the recommended A+A grinds as having to be done explosively in every instance. For example, it specifically calls out Strength Aerobics (Clean, Press, FSQ) which is typically not done explosively.
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Oh absolutely. I’m not seeing any way for some of those exercises to be done explosively, and indeed they were separated by categories “explode” and “grind” in the newsletter article.
 
tomstranger said:
Oh absolutely. I’m not seeing any way for some of those exercises to be done explosively, and indeed they were separated by categories “explode” and “grind” in the newsletter article.
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I was referring more so to the Trap Bar Farmers Carry. Having a weight light enough that it becomes a fast movement and one that you could almost sprint a certain distance in say 25m in 15secs...
 
I should have been more clear. I am asking about the protocol for grinds that would *accompany* A+A work. For example, if I am running A+A KB Cleans (which I am), how would additional grind work fit into the overall picture?
 
WhomtheBellTolls said:
How do you know when your recovered enough to do the next set? I use a heart monitor..
Click to expand...
All my training is HR monitored:) I have 2 methods:
1. when I chase a set number of reps in a set
- I do the set (e.g. 10) then let my HR recover to 62% of Max. This is my typical training
- For the harder sessions, I let HR recover to 75%. 3or4 times a month.

2. when I chase a heart rate zone
- I start a rep at 62% of max HR, then stop when HR reaches 80%, recover to 62% etc.
I set my Polar beats app for a 'steady state' workout, it interrupts the music to warn that I reached 80%: "slow down". then I walk around until I drop back to 62%. I'm enjoyed this method when using the lighter KB to zone in on technique.


WhomtheBellTolls said:
Trap Bar Farmers Carry
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I been doing a lot of walking with a light KB in a suitcase carry (1hand only). I safely jog/walk and even take 10-20 step sprints. I wouldn't call it explosive...yet ;)
 
Xene said:
Don‘t do that. This sounds pretty dangerous.
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Agreed. If you managed to sprint or even run with a trap bar, the ability of the bar to move in any direction along a horizontal plane sounds like something your back would not enjoy. Walking or a fast shuffle with a heavy weight is the right dose for farmer carries in my humble opinion.
 
Xcal said:
- I start a rep at 62% of max HR, then stop when HR reaches 80%, recover to 62% etc.
I set my Polar beats app for a 'steady state' workout, it interrupts the music to warn that I reached 80%: "slow down". then I walk around until I drop back to 62%. I'm enjoyed this method when using the lighter KB to zone in on technique.
Click to expand...
I am intrigued by this, on my "to do" list, for sure.
 
Xcal said:
2. when I chase a heart rate zone
- I start a rep at 62% of max HR, then stop when HR reaches 80%, recover to 62% etc.
I set my Polar beats app for a 'steady state' workout, it interrupts the music to warn that I reached 80%: "slow down". then I walk around until I drop back to 62%. I'm enjoyed this method when using the lighter KB to zone in on technique.
Click to expand...
How well does this work for you without overshooting your higher HR? I find with kettlebells, my HR spikes about 15 seconds after I put the bell down, so I have never felt like it could be a steady state modality. My HR is way too spiky with a kettlebell for that.
 
SamTX said:
the protocol for grinds that would *accompany* A+A work.
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There are many eligible protocols. Generally if you're already running a full A+A program then lower volume grinds is more likely a setup for success.

I would be biased towards the power to the people format. 10 reps a day with plenty of rest . Cycle the intensity however you like, and reset the cycle as soon as you miss a rep.

There's also daily dose deadlifts. 5 singles per day. Was very effective for me. Check out the interestingly effective intensity scheme on that one.

There's also the case where the power work takes a back seat to the strength work, and the power reps are actually a warm up for your strength work. 40-60 quick power reps in about 10 minutes is very good medicine

SamTX said:
how would additional grind work fit into the
Click to expand...
Doing a strength protocol for grinds after power work would be a preferred order if on the same day.

Or alternate the days in your calendar.
 
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