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Barbell Adjusting PTTP

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Mr Singh

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Hi, I have the original power to the people book. I don't want to be 'skinny strong' as I'm currently what I consider 'skinny fat' (175 pounds, probably 25-30% BF, mostly around stomach, the dreaded beer belly). What I would like to know, at aged 42, can i adjust PPTP to 3 days a week, with main set + 2x (10% lower to main set) to induce a greater amount of muscle hypertropy, compared to the original? Will the loading parameters still be appropriate? I don't want to do the bear just yet as on the dragonsdoor forum, it was advised by a senior member that it is not appropirate unless you can bench 2xBW. When I last did PPTP, I couldn't get past 1.5xBW and at my age I dont want to wait for something(2xBW) that may never happen so looking for a hybrid between the two, appopriate for my age. Thanks Singh
 
@Mr Singh,

Welcome to StrongFirst.

if you can't get past 1.5 x bodyweight on your deadlift, please work on your deadlift form in any way that suits you but do this before embarking on a program. Find a local trainer, or Skype with one of us, or simply post a video of your DL here.

Mr Singh said:
I don't want to do the bear just yet as on the dragonsdoor forum, it was advised by a senior member that it is not appropirate unless you can bench 2xBW.
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Your bench press is irrelevant in this context.

If you don't want to be "skinny fat" focus on good form and technique first. Armed with that, all things are possible, including many flavors of strong: skinny, bulky, and anywhere in between.

-S-
 
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You are too fat . Lose fat first - Please dont take it as insult :) it is my suggestion
 
@taedoju, IMHO, tough to say someone who weighs 175 has to lose fat first. Nothing wrong with strength training as the focus because it will sometimes (maybe even most times) help body composition, even without a specific focus on diet or body composition.

-S-
 
Firstly gentlemen, thank you for your prompt reply, that is very much appreciated. I would post my deadlift form, but the problem I have was that I laid of PPTP (standard DL) due to various reasons and when I came back to it, I did not ensure my hamstrings/flexibility was adequate and injured my back. I know this is a lazy way out, but instead i invested in the trap bar, whilst improving on my flexibility.

Taedoju - I would agree with you (based on what I have read), but when I have tried losing fat (and did so) I dropped to below 140Ilbs, that is not somewhere I wish to go again (as a teen I was naturally around that weight). I think what I'm hearing is that at my weight (and age), PPTP would still be the best way to go (for now) rather than bastardising it?

Is that a fair assessment, chaps?

Singh.
 
@Mr Singh PTTP is an excellent program. But the best program for you is the one you can do without injury that helps you progress. If deadlifting and you don't get along right now, then consider a kettlebell program instead.

-S-
 
PTTP will not make you "skinny strong", it will make you strong, that's all!
If you are skinny (like I am) it will add maybe a slight amount of muscle, but it will make what you have look much better (skinny but very dense and hard)

What it will do is make you very strong, strong enough to handle an actual hypertrophy program which you should do later on then (there's a multitude of them available, including Pavel and Dan John which are all good, and should be limited to about 6 weeks)
 
Hi guys - So an update and a query.

The trap-bar only routine, has left me with much better legs, than the conventional deadlift, but i have noticed, the arms are left skinnier than with the conventional deadlift. My biceps were like stone and larger with the conventional.

The bench press.. I was originally doing the incline, due to an injury flat benching when younger. However, I read more on bench technique and started flat bench and it felt great, no shoulder pain at all, numbers are going up and a noticible difference in body.

But, i have noticed something odd. On my first rep of every set, my decent is super-slow, to the point, where it comes half way, almost takes a pause then even more slowly comes down to chest. This does not happen on subsequent reps. It's frustrating as getting the first rep is really hard and i feel i'm wasting energy/strength like this.

I thought maybe it was psychological so tried to pull the bar down to my chest (mainly lats and some biceps to pull down), the decent was quicker, but my biceps felt like they were going to explode and ultimately, i couldnt get the rep.

Has anyone come across this before? I've heard suggestions, it's down to weak biceps (perhaps related to my earlier observation of the trap bar), i've also heard it's just psyhological.

Any thoughts?
 
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Mr Singh said:
But, i have noticed something odd. On my first rep of every set, my decent is super-slow, to the point, where it comes half way, almost takes a pause then even more slowly comes down to chest. This does not happen on subsequent reps. It's frustrating as getting the first rep is really hard and i feel i'm wasting energy/strength like this.
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I suggest patience. Here's a thought for you.

When you are new to a lift, it often takes the first rep or two of a set to find your good form, sometimes the first set or two of a training session.

As you become more experienced, and as the weight gets heavier, the first rep becomes the best one because you've learned what you need to do and are able to execute your best form immediately. The second rep isn't as good because you are already fatigued.

Stay the course, focus on technique, and the results will come to you when you are ready for them.

-S-
 
Thanks for the quick reply Steve. I've tried warm-up sets and i dont have the problem there, it's only on the heavy working set. I think you are on to something though, as I moved over from inclining for several years (on and off) to the flat, only about 5-6 weeks ago and one session a week, so perhaps my mind needs more time to get used to the technique. I also swapped over midcycle, rather than at the beginning of a cycle, so perhaps that was not so wise, either :)

Mr Singh
 
@Mr Singh, I see this in my own training all the time - on movements that I don't keep consistently in my schedule. If I take a few months off from something, it almost always takes me a while to work back into it, and during that time, the first rep is awkward, the second better, and by the third rep or so, I'm good. As I continue to work on that movement, it improves, typically over the course of a month or two, to the point where the first rep is good.

-S-
 
I've had success from following PTTP as recommended by Pavel but substituting 10 rep sets for the 5s. You get frequent time under the bar while also regularly cycling up into the more typical hypertrophy zone for weight, volume etc
 
@Steve friedes - That's kinda reassuring to know LOL, as there is not a lot of information on the internet about this. I'll keep persevering and see how it goes. I've always felt better on the second set when training, but the first rep issue is not one i've come across before :)

@LukeV - I go to sets of 8 (as per Faveel's recommendation in his 5x5 80/20) at the beginning/middle of the cycle on bench, to add a bit more hypertrophy but on the top end stick to 5s. I tried 8's on the Trap Bar deadlift, but I put my back out (again) on the 7th rep. For me, I've realised that above 5 for deads results in poor form, due to fatigue. I believe this psychological fatigue (leading to poor form) is mentioned in PTTP and for me it holds true, sadly.
 
@LukeVI tried 8's on the Trap Bar deadlift, but I put my back out (again) on the 7th rep. For me, I've realised that above 5 for deads results in poor form, due to fatigue. I believe this psychological fatigue (leading to poor form) is mentioned in PTTP and for me it holds true, sadly.[/QUOTE]

I should have clarified that when I go above five for deads I have to keep an eagle eye on the weight - dropping to the level where I can stay tight for all 10 reps. For me back strain happens as soon as I lose tightness which I do above about five reps unless I moderate the weight. I would also emphasise that the five rep set in PTTP is not necessarily touch and go and can be close to singles. That's the way I do the 10 reps - resetting to perfect form for each rep. Also paying close attention to cycling. I never do the same workout twice in a row - dialling back the weight and working back up as soon as I start to strain. Good luck!
 
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@LukeV, there is _nothing_ you can't accomplish with two sets of 5 instead of 1 set of 10. You'll pay more attention on the 5's, and you'll be able to use a heavier weight, too. Just remember, anything more than a triple is cardio already, so five is a high-rep set.

:)

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@LukeVJust remember, anything more than a triple is cardio already, so five is a high-rep set.-S-
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Lol! I had always assumed that if hypertrophy was your goal 2x10 would be better than 2x5 (assuming PTTP style 1x plus drop set 1x -10%). You don't think so?
 
I believe it's in PTTP where you'll find Pavel suggesting that sets of 5 are often the perfect combination of strength and hypertrophy. But think about the idea - sets of 5 on short rests allow you to use more weight, and you can still achieve the same volume.

-S-
 
There's a nice section in Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe which looks at neuronal firing (or some other measured electrical phenomena) which demonstrates that sets of 5 work really well and that CNS efficiency starts to dip after that, hence I guess that form can suffer.

I'm currently doing PttP cycles and I like the way the 2 sets of 5 keeps the fatigue low, means I can lift just about everyday without crashing.
 
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