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Advice on efficient remedial exercise to progress to Clean & Press

JamesWW

JamesWW

Level 1 Valued Member
tldr: Being humbled by heavy bell, requesting advice on clean and press regressions/remedial exercises

Hi, I've been doing the ROP for a while and have been really enjoying it. my snatches, cleans and presses and swings have been challenging but I felt like I progressed well in strength using a 16kg kettlebell. The problem here now is that I found a special on a 24kg kettlebell, traded in my 16kg and purchased it. It's a competition style bell compared to my massive plastic/concrete 16kg one so its smaller in size which is what I wanted . Turns out though that I was overconfident in my gains and am struggling with the 24kg bell. To address this I wanted to ask advice on what I could do to address my shoulder strength. In a perfect world I would just carry on with the ROP but I'm concerned about my mobility in my shoulder, particularly the left side. I currently do warmups with bands to prep for the actual work. Would doing Turkish getups or perhaps half-getups address my shoulder strength and mobility over time? Or should I stick to doing slow 1/2/3 ladders? Thanks in advance for any advice!

Notes: I no longer have the 16kg bell so I can't do the obvious thing and keep using that.
 
JamesWW said:
tldr: Being humbled by heavy bell, requesting advice on clean and press regressions/remedial exercises

Hi, I've been doing the ROP for a while and have been really enjoying it. my snatches, cleans and presses and swings have been challenging but I felt like I progressed well in strength using a 16kg kettlebell. The problem here now is that I found a special on a 24kg kettlebell, traded in my 16kg and purchased it. It's a competition style bell compared to my massive plastic/concrete 16kg one so its smaller in size which is what I wanted . Turns out though that I was overconfident in my gains and am struggling with the 24kg bell. To address this I wanted to ask advice on what I could do to address my shoulder strength. In a perfect world I would just carry on with the ROP but I'm concerned about my mobility in my shoulder, particularly the left side. I currently do warmups with bands to prep for the actual work. Would doing Turkish getups or perhaps half-getups address my shoulder strength and mobility over time? Or should I stick to doing slow 1/2/3 ladders? Thanks in advance for any advice!

Notes: I no longer have the 16kg bell so I can't do the obvious thing and keep using that.
Click to expand...
A video of your clean and press would be helpful.

How many reps or ladders @ 24kg can you clean and press currently on each side, with a rest in between? How far along were you with 16kg with ROP (e.g. 5 ladders up to 5)?

What about your shoulder mobility is concerning? Why are you concerned about it now with your 24kg that you weren't with the 16kg? Have you ever done a Turkish getup with the 16kg or 24kg? Have you ever tried arm bars?
 
Hi,

I was up to 5 ladders of 5 with a 16kg bell, by no means was it easy for me but I maintained form. Earlier todaywhen I attempted c+p with the 24 I got 3 reps on the right with decent form but my left hand side felt like it wanted to give up after 1 rep.

Regarding shoulder mobility I want to guard against a tear or a sprain and I'm wondering if the best way to do this is with a regression of a clean and press. I was able to do full getups with the lighter weight so I'm thinking if I do them, or half-getups, with the 24kg I can build up the shoulder strength to get back into full clean and press after I build up more strength.

Hell, I've just watched a video on the arm bar you suggested. I will give this a go, it looks hectic but might be just what I need. Thank you.
 
I personally found the jump from 20 KG to 24 KG challenging. I would recommend that you warm up very very well before using the bell (Maybe some sets of Push ups or dips in addition to mobility drills as well). If you can Press the bell for 3-5 Times I would personally recommend working with single reps with plenty of rest in between because this will help you accumulate volume. After a couple of weeks if you find yourself able to press that bell for a bit more reps you can start adding ladders or higher rep sets.
 
If understand the post correct, you can do ladders with reps 1,2,3 with the 24?
If you like the progression in RoP then... do that?

the progression I like for the presses:

Kettlebell - ROP support group

I plan on starting ROP next week with some GTG Pistol Squat practice on variety days. But I have some questions. 1) I have heard that a typical session can take an hour easily when you add pullups. I was thinking of adding pullups only after the top rung, instead of every rung. So far example...
www.strongfirst.com

Edit: is there an issue or are you afraid that there might be an issue?
 
Halfakneecap said:
Can you clean the 24? If so, push press until you can press. I’ve found it works really well when you go up a bell.

And getups or even half getups I think will work well too
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for this. I tried now with the push press and its much more manageable, still a bitch but a good alternative while I'm building up to a full, (strict?) press. I can clean it well enough but I have to get used to the comp style handle for proper insertion. Forearms are taking a beating. I think I'm going to hammer away at push press on 1/2/3 ladders for a while and test progress every so often.
 
Kettlebellguy said:
I personally found the jump from 20 KG to 24 KG challenging. I would recommend that you warm up very very well before using the bell (Maybe some sets of Push ups or dips in addition to mobility drills as well). If you can Press the bell for 3-5 Times I would personally recommend working with single reps with plenty of rest in between because this will help you accumulate volume. After a couple of weeks if you find yourself able to press that bell for a bit more reps you can start adding ladders or higher rep sets.
Click to expand...
Ya, I was super overconfident about the jump to be honest. Just couldn't let the special slide though, lol. The single reps is solid advice, thank you. I'm going to go for low rep ladders (1 / 2 / 3) and if I can't manage will just do singles.
 
Joel the Savage said:
If understand the post correct, you can do ladders with reps 1,2,3 with the 24?
If you like the progression in RoP then... do that?

the progression I like for the presses:

Kettlebell - ROP support group

I plan on starting ROP next week with some GTG Pistol Squat practice on variety days. But I have some questions. 1) I have heard that a typical session can take an hour easily when you add pullups. I was thinking of adding pullups only after the top rung, instead of every rung. So far example...
www.strongfirst.com

Edit: is there an issue or are you afraid that there might be an issue?
Click to expand...
Hi, ya sorry wasn't super clear there. I was thinking about doing the lower ladders and from other comments and your link to the support group, seems to be the way forward, but will probably do push presses as a regression for a while as per other advice received here. Thank you.
 
JamesWW said:
Hi, ya sorry wasn't super clear there. I was thinking about doing the lower ladders and from other comments and your link to the support group, seems to be the way forward, but will probably do push presses as a regression for a while as per other advice received here. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Oh and just made a new post there today which might fit your bill.

Kettlebell - ROP support group

I don’t have the book (because I hate ebooks and physical copies are stupid expensive) but my understanding is that the program in Return of the Kettlebell is very similar to RoP but with double KBs. I’m working my way through RoP with 32kg right now, started after passing my SFG snatch test in...
www.strongfirst.com

On the topic of pushpresses. There's quite a technique-difference between strict, tempo, push. Pavel (at least I think it was Pavel) suggested "long presses", that is a squat into a overhead press. It is more like a strict press with some speed and more like the strict-press-groove than pushpresses.
 
Joel the Savage said:
Pavel (at least I think it was Pavel) suggested "long presses", that is a squat into a overhead press. It is more like a strict press with some speed and more like the strict-press-groove than pushpresses.
Click to expand...
This was recommended to me as well by another forum member (thanks to @Steve W. ). It’s great. The fact that you are just standing up and then pressing means there will be less tendency to arch the back to get the bell overhead. Since it has less oomph than a standard push press it’s a bit closer to the strict press, and what momentum you do gain from standing up out of the squat is surprisingly helpful.

Plus you get a bit of a leg workout at the same time, so it’s a great one stop shop of sorts.
 
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