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Other/Mixed Alan Thrall: Why I Started Bodybuilding

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Individual differences come into play as well.

I have a friend who just can’t get past 85kg. Super disciplined at nutrition ( 3000cals plus daily ) and way stronger than I am ( double body weight deadlift comfortably etc ), just can’t grow.

But, he’s crazy lean. 8 pack lean in his late 30’s



Azz hole haha
 
silveraw said:
Yeah, but he took the first half of what Thrall said (paraphrasing) "I think everyone who trains wants to grow muscle or at least look like they lift." and cut off the qualifying statement to turn it into a binary "Mr Olympia body or nothing" type thing.

Not sure if it was intentional or not. Maybe he did stop the video half way through the sentence.
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I watched through what I quoted and not much more. Apologies if I have misinterpreted - my wife and I are on a vacation and I’m already spending more time online than I should.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
At about 1:40 in the video: "We all lift weights to get bigger muscles; there's no denying this."
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Boris Bachmann said:
but it is something I think people should consider when they go whole hog into the "MOAR MASS!" or "WIRY STRENGTH!" camps.
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My initial point was the same one you make. I read what I quoted as being “whole hog” into “MOAR MASS”. I have added a bit of muscle over the years because of my training - I trusted that my training, in combination with my minding my body weight to keep it from increasing, would put sufficient muscle on me where it was needed to meet my training goals. That’s what happened. The description of me as looking fit but not necessarily like a powerlifter suits me just fine.

I’m not “whole hog” into not adding muscle or adding it. I’m “whole hog” against someone saying that there aren’t lifters like me out there.

And to be completely honest, my wife could tell you that I’ve been talking about moving up a weight class beginning a few weeks ago. I don’t rule it out. I do consider that it could have benefits for me. But so far, I don’t think I’m going to do it. I lift weights to improve the quality of the rest of my life; any performance considerations in my training approach are secondary to that and by a large margin.

I hope this clarifies where I’m coming from.

-S-
 
silveraw said:
"I think everyone who trains wants to grow muscle or at least look like they lift." and cut off the qualifying statement to turn it into a binary "Mr Olympia body or nothing" type thing.
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I was just thinking about it in terms of a football team. Lots of blokes want to be big and buff like the DE or LB. Then there are others who might admire the lean athletic physique of a DB or receiver. It's a rare person who says 'I want to look like the punter. '
 
solarbear said:
I was just thinking about it in terms of a football team. Lots of blokes want to be big and buff like the DE or LB. Then there are others who might admire the lean athletic physique of a DB or receiver. It's a rare person who says 'I want to look like the punter. '
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Or even worse, the placekickers
 
solarbear said:
I was just thinking about it in terms of a football team. Lots of blokes want to be big and buff like the DE or LB. Then there are others who might admire the lean athletic physique of a DB or receiver. It's a rare person who says 'I want to look like the punter. '
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Right up there with flying pigs and monkeys out of butts.
 
Steve Freides said:
And to be completely honest, my wife could tell you that I’ve been talking about moving up a weight class beginning a few weeks ago. I don’t rule it out. I do consider that it could have benefits for me. But so far, I don’t think I’m going to do it. I lift weights to improve the quality of the rest of my life; any performance considerations in my training approach are secondary to that and by a large margin.
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You might find an intelligent 5-10lb gain over a year or two beneficial to both performance and quality of life, Steve. That was kinda my point (at least one of them).
 
John Grahill said:
I think what @Steve Freides is saying is that bigger pumped up muscles are not his main priority....he'd rather be strong and fit. I do agree with him. If there is some muscle gain with this then ok but pumping muscles for show isn't my thing. Maybe in my 20s it was.

I defer to the "Enter the Kettlebell" wherein a guy named Pavel said if you complete the Rite of Passage goals, you'll be muscled "in the right places" or wordsvto that effect.

I think when Dan John mentions hypertrophy he's not meaning the bodybuilding type muscular gain, but rather maintaining/gaining musculature that we lose as we age.
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What makes you think that about Dan John? Why wouldn't he talk about muscular gain?

He has written a book specific on acquiring more mass in a short time period.

Lately I think he has said that he wished he'd have done more hypertrophy training during his career and how he should have done things like direct arm training. I can't remember the exact sources, but that's the picture I got.
 
Antti said:
What makes you think that about Dan John? Why wouldn't he talk about muscular gain?

He has written a book specific on acquiring more mass in a short time period.

Lately I think he has said that he wished he'd have done more hypertrophy training during his career and how he should have done things like direct arm training. I can't remember the exact sources, but that's the picture I got.
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Well, I may have misunderstood his intention, but I was of the impression Dan was referring to maintaining muscle mass as one ages.
 
Alan Thrall is awesome. I love his videos. He makes some great points about bodybuilding being essentially hypertrophy/strength training.

BTW there's a Barbell Medicine seminar at Untamed Strength coming up on Oct 14-15, 2023... That's Alan Thrall's gym, and the price is very reasonable for two days of lifting and learning. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in strength and health topics. I attended the seminar in Atlanta earlier this year. So much good information, presented as very refined and condensed lectures on the following topics by two Medical Doctors who are very, very strong (Dr. Jordan Feigenbaum and Dr. Austin Baraki):
  • Behavior Change
  • Musculoskeletal Health and Exercise
  • Overweight and Obesity
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Nutrition Prescription & Case Study
  • Pain
  • Special Populations
  • Exercise Prescription and Case Study
  • Q&A
 
Steve Freides said:
At about 1:40 in the video: "We all lift weights to get bigger muscles; there's no denying this."

Yes, there is denying this.

-S-
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Well, depending on how you read it...

"We all lift weights to get bigger muscles than what we would have if we didn't lift at all"... I think there's no denying this.
"We all lift weights to get bigger muscles than we have already"... Certainly could deny this.
 
One other thought....

I think weightliftingers have it right. We do strength training (squats, presses, pulls). We train the main lifts (snatch, C&J, variations) which are the performance objective, and also clearly train power. And we do accessories (pull-ups, planks, rotator cuff strengthening, RDLs, triceps extensions, etc.). The latter, accessories, are more in the bodybuilding category for methods, but the purpose in weightlifting is to build some supporting muscle to assist the main lifts, much like Alan described for Strongman training.

I've found that I really like the combination and how the emphasis on the various components can vary over phases of training.
 
Anna C said:
"We all lift weights to get bigger muscles than what we would have if we didn't lift at all"... I think there's no denying this.
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I deny this, too. I want to be strong, and I love that I can approach it as a skill and not pay attention to what I look like.

-S-
 
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Steve Freides said:
I deny this, too. I want to be strong, and I love that I can approach it as a skill and not pay attention to what I look like.

-S-
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Ah... well, if I can fill in some more words...

"We all lift weights with the objective of our body having function provided by muscle than what we would have if we didn't lift at all"... I think there's no denying this.

"We all lift weights with the objective of building muscles that look bigger than what we would have if we didn't lift at all"... Certainly could deny this.
 
silveraw said:
I know I was close to DYEL territory when I hit simple.
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I think this perception may be dependent on your reference group. An average person would consider Steve jacked, even without a "for a senior citizen" qualifier. On the other hand many fitness people would call RKC-era Pavel a DYEL.
 
Cause of this thread I started watching some of Basement Bodybuildings videos. The bodybuilding routines are too long / require too much equipment for me and I'm happy with isos and kb at moment, but it was really interesting to hear his perspective. Especially regarding bodybuilding and the 3 big lifts - he basically critiques the hyper-focus on the big 3 barbell lifts for hypertrophy (in the general online community) and advises some alternatives - RDL, lat pulldowns and seated military press (without back support). One of his reasons for this seems to be for longevity / feeling beat up from the big 3 when you're dealing with higher weights. I like my workouts leaving me feeling better so a lot of his messaging was appealing to me.

If anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/@BasementBodybuilding
 
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